Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Moderator: JaggedAppliance

Do you approve of the changes in the first part of the patch?

Yes
21
54%
No
18
46%
 
Total votes : 39

Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby IceDreamer » 23 Aug 2016, 15:29

As promised in the original thread, here's a new thread with a new poll. The patch overall had some things which were controversial, and because of forum feedback it has been split into two parts.

This new poll should give us a view on if the split is the right thing, and a more accurate picture of how Monday's patch should be received.

So this poll is for the changes in THIS changelog: http://content.faforever.com/patchnotes/3655.html

If anything you're not liking from the beta is in THIS changelog: http://content.faforever.com/patchnotes/3656.html then please DON'T take it into account in this poll. There's still plenty of time for things in that changelog to be changed or removed or reworked based on feedback :)

Thanks again for your feedback!
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Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby PsychoBoB » 23 Aug 2016, 17:28

Overall the changes are fine i think! There are just a few thoughts and questions left:

Scathis
I play a lot of teamgames and the Scathis i often part of them. So i think the nerf is a bit too hard. It would be enough to increase the buildrate so the other team has more time to scout and to react. If a team can invest the mass of 3 GCs into something then it really should get a gameender for small maps or something to deny a navy siege.

Mobile T1 Anti-Air
Why not change the values like the ones from T2 static AA to be more consequent in faction diversity? E.g. more range for Aeon T1 AA.

T2 Flak
Same as mentioned above for Mobile T1 AA: try to be more consequent in faction diversity and change range and damage too.

Engineers
Why you give up the compensation of Aeon and Sera T3 engineer buildpower for Kennels and Hives? Sure with the new costs, the T3 engie would me more mass efficient than a T1 engie but maybe you can leave it at a buildrate of 40 or at least 35 and make it a bit more expensive? In the late game it is very useful to have a lot of buildpower for experimentals or for shield support.

Aeon TMD
Where can i find the code change for the Aeon TMD? I'm just inquisitive ;)

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Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby IceDreamer » 23 Aug 2016, 17:55

PsychoBoB wrote:Scathis
I play a lot of teamgames and the Scathis i often part of them. So i think the nerf is a bit too hard. It would be enough to increase the buildrate so the other team has more time to scout and to react. If a team can invest the mass of 3 GCs into something then it really should get a gameender for small maps or something to deny a navy siege.


I'd like to raise the observation that "3 GCs" of mass in... GCs... is very frequently not enough to break the front line at this stage in a game... So why should that same mass in Scathis be enough not only to break the line, but also massively damage the enemy T4s, wipe out the eco, deny expansions, and generally kill everything and everyone?

AA comments - One step at a time :)

Buildpower comments - The additional BP was put in because of the risk that Hives and Kennels would be a massive advantage. As it happened, they are generally crappy, so this difference has become unfounded and unfair. At least, I think that's the logic :)

Aeon TMD Code - https://github.com/FAForever/fa/commit/ ... 33334965cd and https://github.com/FAForever/fa/commit/ ... 0ac6ceba8f
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Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby Zock » 23 Aug 2016, 18:31

AA diversity -

While more diversity would always be nice, we just can't do everything at once as long as there are other and more important things to be done because we have limited capacities.

As second reason, diversity needs to have some more of a concept rather than "make all stats different", which can quickly lead to diversity on paper but not make any difference in the game, which just makes the game harder to learn. (Which are ironically exactly the objections blodir has about the HP changes ;) ) This happened to some degree with the static t2 flak, that is different now, but the differences are too small to be really impactfull or noticeable, they probably needed to be bigger, which both increases the amount of work to keep it balanced (reason 1) and the amount of people who will dislike the change (reason 3)

As third reason, even if we had the workload, too much change at once can be bad, as we can see by the wishes to split the patch already. And adding faction diversity like you suggest is always an uphill battle and provoces many angry forum posts and opinions, with more or less valid arguments, similar to the reactions about the HP changes as well. Long time ago (3 years maybe) i proposed to make bombers more diverse too, and this patch would've been a good opportunity for this aswell. But this things need to be done with care, time and patience, else the game can become too different from the original very quickly.

As result, my idea about balance is that when changes are done, they should try to preserve or increase faction diversity as secondary goal, but while changes that are solely done to increase faction diversity are not nececarrily bad, they shouldn't get out of hand. We add a lot of diversity in this patch (mostly in part 2 with the hp changes) already, lets not rush things.

However, interesting that you mention more range for aeon t1 maa, because it will probably happen in part 2 of the patch indeed. :) But it will happen in line with what i wrote above, with the main purpose to nerf aeon a bit, and only using that as opportunity to increase faction diversity as seconday purpose.



Engies -

You already mentioned it, they can't be more efficient than t1 engies. They could have more bp and more cost, but that would be just as much of a disadvantage as an advantage. And as Hives and Kennels are not too much of an advantage right now, the compensation isn't badly needed anymore either.
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Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby keyser » 23 Aug 2016, 19:18

i do like most of the change in this patch. The thing i like the less is the bomber, but let's give it a shot.
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Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby Morax » 23 Aug 2016, 21:00

I'm heavily opposed to most of the changes, still, so I'm voting no.
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Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby Bittered » 24 Aug 2016, 22:09

I like postponing buildings hp changes. And I really like the new bombers. Yet, fire-beetles are still dead, so: no.
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RIP the fire-beetles ;_;
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Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby Ithilis_Quo » 24 Aug 2016, 23:13

Most of the thinks have some problematic stuff inside that is complicate explain via mobil that im already writing, im in caucasian mountain so dont play Last version but reading changing i notice stuff that i realy think that will cause problems.

T2 faktory price incest by 50% at all mean that t2land will be even less important as its now. Rather skip t2 completly especialy as aoen is no sance at all staging on t2 if its not necesary, in most of team game it isnt. Other race will also have problem to deal with auroras.

Bomber have too short cyrcle rotation. It should be half more. Now it work as gunship.

T2 acu whiteout regeneration is bad move, while its only way how to get acu back to fight.

Selen toggle is anoying, for same reason as toggles from siren is out.

Scathis is basicly removed from game instead of trying to fix it.
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Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby jackherer » 25 Aug 2016, 02:28

Yup i think its better, less changes, no base bulding changes is good. Lets give it a try
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Re: Balance Patch Part 1 Poll

Postby biass » 25 Aug 2016, 06:08

To those complaining about beetles:
Have you yet considered that having to shoot down 2 transports in the space of a few seconds is harder then shooting down only one?
Map thread: https://bit.ly/2PBsa5H

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