Cybran Factory HP

[BRNKoINSANITY]

Just something to throw out there..... if the t2 factory dies to one tac missile, and building TMD requires t2 tech, it follows that you would either have to go t2 early enough that you are POSITIVE there won't be a TML around so you can build tmd, or you need to go t2 on ACU first.

Conversely, any time you are vs cybran, if you attempt to rush a tml somewhere in the middle of any small or mid size map, there will be a distinct chance that you can simply snipe off whatever factory they are upgrading to t2 before they can get an engy out.

I understand the "healing between missiles" problem, but can't you give it 6100 hp? Two missiles will kill it, 100% of the time. It won't die to one missile 100% of the time.

This change in particular seems kind of silly and very broken to me.

[Nepty]

That's a serious change there.

Good luck on your request.

[Iszh]

It s not much worse than the actual condition for uef vs cybran. I built 1 tmd in 1v1 ladder have anyways a lag of mass on a medium map and cybran has 1 tml shooting first my tmd and then can happily tml my base as he wants. If i rebuilt 1 tmd he can tml it again. Funny isnt it. It happened to me in a ladder game not long time ago on loki. I was building tmd after tmd and enemy simply sending more and more tml rockets. i cant stop tank production not to die or lose bases and if i stall mass for a moment -> bye bye base. I would say if a cybran is not able to get a t2 fac and an engi before enemy has a tml thats a legal punishment. I like this.

The joke about it is that rebuilding tmd is more expensive than his rockets. Which means once this tml game started and i dont have enough of tmd i am fucked. He could use a corsair or simply t1 bombers to snipe 1 tmd and i have a huuugee problem. Is that fair? Really i like this change proposal a lot.

[biass]

You would hope that if he has put mass into a t2 suite and a tml launcher you would have got an advantage into units and could take enough ground to keep it out of range

at least for the bigger maps, i understand shit like open palms you can go base to base but ey

[KeyBlue]

Well the decreased hp will probably guide more people into trying to tml cybran HQ, but that was always an option. You only needed 850more mass and like 10s? (don't know exact reload time on tml, but you can stall/assist it, so its not that important)

Anyway.
Since you could always snipe hq's, in theory the change will only be an issue in the clutch situations where the opponent gets 1 tml off and it hits but you can defend with tmd against the 2nd. Otherwise the result would be the same, but only more expensive.

So only if these clutch moments become the standard, or just frequent, will it have big effects.


I kinda like the faction direction for cybran: best TML, but very vulnerable against TML hits themselves: Both T3 mex and T3 pgen die to 1 TML aswell.

[Zock]

It is indeed a big danger to make this OP, but the alpha testing could not bring any light to if its actually true or not, so i hope there will be more testing in the beta to show if it is, or not.

This is not a change that will go 100% into the game, its there to be tested.


However you need to think about that the difference is not that big - you can already rush a tml and assist two missiles before the enemy is t2, it only takes a few seconds, so the actual change is that cybran has this few seconds (depending on the amount of assist on the tml) less than other factions to get a TMD up.

Its not a difference between making cybran HQs able to kill easily and others not, its a difference in time they have they can afford to be later on t2 than the other factions.

I understand the "healing between missiles" problem, but can't you give it 6100 hp? Two missiles will kill it, 100% of the time. It won't die to one missile 100% of the time.

The whole idea behind the change is to do exactly that though - to make faction HP matter more and be different, and as part of that, make cybran buildings vulnuable to TML as faction weakness. Two missiles already kill an HQ right now, so there would be no significant added weakness.

The healing between missiles is more for the higher tech HQs.

I kinda like the faction direction for cybran: best TML, but very vulnerable against TML hits themselves: Both T3 mex and T3 pgen die to 1 TML aswell.

Thats the idea. Maybe some of the cybran TML nerfs could be reverted to even out the new disadvantage, or other ways to finetune it. The goal is to bring more faction diversity and make hp differences a strategically important part of the game. Maybe this particular case is too extreme, maybe we can make it work. The test looks bigger than it is as mentioned above, the 6000 hp for t3 mex and t3 pg are maybe bigger, and even more so together with everything else its maybe too much at once.

[Lieutenant Lich]

I still think that changing economy structures' HP is B.S. HQ... probably a good change but it needs to be tested more deeply.

[ax0lotl]

I also think that making Cybran T2 land HQ, T2 air HQ, T3 mex and T3 pgen killable by 1 TML, is not good. TML was in a good spot, does not need a buff. Those changes do not promote aggressive play, they promote for Cybran having to invest in more TM defenses. Which, as BRNK states, has to be rushed. On a factory, if you want to be aggresive and have gun on ACU.

(Lowering HP on T3 naval facs sounds good, now finally a naval nuke could kill them.)

[angus000]

It's not really that much different from how it currently is; if your enemy has a tml and you don't even have a t2 factory, you're fucked up. If you do have a t2 factory, but not a t2 engy, you're still kinda fucked up.

As Zock said, the only difference is having a few more seconds to finish building a tmd before you lose your factory.

[Lieutenant Lich]

In all, change to buildings' HP is not good. Even to naval HQs.