Seraphim sonar thoughts

[crispyambulance]

How do people feel about the lack of T3 sonar for Sera?

I think the way this is set up horribly gimps Sera naval intelligence. In practice you either become totally reliant on scout planes (particularly T3) or you have to build a million sonars everywhere and manage your engis doing it, while the other factions can hit upgrade on 1 T1 sonar and never think about it again.

I'm all for faction diversity, but not with a basic intel structure and in such a lopsided fashion. Since I'm sure giving Sera a normal T3 sonar would be verboten, is there a reason why they can't have a stationary one T2 or T3 that has the same radius as every other faction's T3 sonar or even bigger to begin to make up for the fact that it can't move?

Why does one faction have half as effective sonar capabilities? Can you imagine if this was the case for radar? Is there something I am missing here?

[Um ZiniZini]

I agree on this, lack of t3 sonar for sera sucks hard.

[Myxir]

imo it's fine if they have other means to make up for this lack (like cruiser/carrier with better sonar than others), or their t2 sonar can move and maybe gets something special, like a submerged mode

[Astrofoo]

Personally, whenever I play setons Navy I always play as Sera, then just ask someone to either make a t3 sonar and give it, or give me an engy so I can make my own. Since Setons navy is the only place people still play Sera, I don't see this as a big problem.
#resultsofopcybran
#noloveforsera
#seraissoincomletetheyhavetobegotherfactionsfortheirstuff

[FunkOff]

Sera sucks for many reasons. This us a pretty big one.

Seraphim should get sonar free on t1 and t2 tor defs. The little sonar model that is the t2 one now should become t3 sonar with full range.

[Um ZiniZini]

Sera sucks for many reasons. This us a pretty big one.

Seraphim should get sonar free on t1 and t2 tor defs. The little sonar model that is the t2 one now should become t3 sonar with full range.

yeah I agree they should get a free t3 battleship also when they build their first naval yard

[Hawkei]

My thoughts on Seraphim Sonar: It works. You should build one.

[zolikk]

Sera T2 Sonar is much better than the other T2 sonars. It's not that much behind T3.

My suggestion would be to make a Sera T3 "Defense Platform" instead of a Sonar unit. It gets more health (maybe around 2x) than T3 Sonars, a movement speed of 5, a TMD and a very good, long-range torp defense. Its Sonar range identical to the Sera T2 Sonar. So, if you build them, you'll want to move them along with your navy, and in that case the shorter sonar doesn't matter that much.

[vongratz]

Sera T2 Sonar is much better than the other T2 sonars. It's not that much behind T3.

My suggestion would be to make a Sera T3 "Defense Platform" instead of a Sonar unit. It gets more health (maybe around 2x) than T3 Sonars, a movement speed of 5, a TMD and a very good, long-range torp defense. Its Sonar range identical to the Sera T2 Sonar. So, if you build them, you'll want to move them along with your navy, and in that case the shorter sonar doesn't matter that much.

Sorry, but this is a ship, with speed of 5.

The best idea to change something would be one with submersing capability cited above.

[crispyambulance]

Hawkei, I don't exactly see you maining as sera.

Anyways let's begin to discuss what IMO are the best ideas to fix the sonar problem.

Carrier/cruiser: T2 cruiser has more HP than T3 sonar (but less than all other cruisers) and is gonna be spammed by any reasonable player. You'd have to give it much reduced sonar coverage as a T3 sonar replacement to make up for the fact that you can't snipe this 1 thing to wipe out your opponent's intel. Carrier is same issue and it has a crapload of HP. This would give Sera a definite intel advantage unless the sonar radius was not much bigger than it is now for these units. It is a possible workable solution though if you can figure out how to balance these factors.

Stationary sonar: Nerf T2 sonar and give them a T3 sonar with higher radius than other T3s. Problem with this is now they may have a sonar advantage, seeing as their sonars do not have to be as close to the battlefield to be giving them the same intel. Maybe giving an advantage to sera wouldn't be the worst thing though in the current balance, and it wouldn't be an advantage on every map. At the end of the day, the sonar still would not be able to retreat with your navy when your navy has to fall back, which is the primary weakness of the current setup, but this weakness would be much reduced because now your stationary sonars do not have to be significantly closer to the battlefield than your opponent's mobile ones. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the current situation.

Just give them a freaking normal T3 sonar: look, I understand the fear here and the precedent. But what if it was just a mistake to create faction diversity in this way in the first place? Do we need it in the basic, fundamental intel structures of all places?

We could also just let their T2 sonar move. It would continue the pattern of designing Sera for players who prefer to play in handcuffs, but it would not be as horribly unusable as the current setup. Making it submersible is an interesting option, but I would still refuse to use it because if I have to fall back with my navy it's going to die either way. Maybe make it submersible and mobile while keeping the intel radius as its drawback would work.