Seraphim sonar thoughts

[KeyBlue]

Sorry, but this is a ship, with speed of 5.

The best idea to change something would be one with submersing capability cited above.

All T3 sonars are ships.
FAF Database even shows that UEF T3 sonar wins against a tigershark.
http://www.faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.php?bp=UAS0305,URS0305,UES0305,UES0203,XSB3202

[zolikk]

Sorry, but this is a ship, with speed of 5.

The best idea to change something would be one with submersing capability cited above.

Other T3 Sonars have a speed of 4.5. The Cybran is by far the most useful, ability-wise, with a stealth field.

Yeah, we could just make Sera Sonars work like other factions... T2 becomes identical to other factions' T2 Sonar, and we make T3 Sonar submerge as a "special ability". But that doesn't seem very useful in end game, plus a little boring "solution". And Cybran Sonar would still be by far the best. Why not give some other use for this potential unit? Assuming it doesn't break balance. 350 range is already really good for a mobile Sonar anyway. If you move them with your navy, it's more than enough. Let's be honest, it's not the lack of T3 sonar that's making Sera lacking in naval performance overall. Cheaper extra TML can make those mobile shields last longer.

[Zock]

There need to be very good reasons to add new units to the game. The sera sonar question is not big enough to warrant making a new unit for them, and if change is required, there are other options that don't need a new unit. So no t3 sonar. Moving t2 sonar or other solutions can be discussed, but I believe the idea of gpg when they didn't make a t3 sonar was that the bigger range is compensation enough.

Any proposal should aim to be an advantage for sera in some situations and a disadvantage in others. If the t2 sonar could move, it would need to get less range. And there were discussions to make t3 sonar not able to move anymore either, which would make the current sera range advantage more meaningful too.

[vongratz]

There need to be very good reasons to add new units to the game. The sera sonar question is not big enough to warrant making a new unit for them, and if change is required, there are other options that don't need a new unit. So no t3 sonar. Moving t2 sonar or other solutions can be discussed, but I believe the idea of gpg when they didn't make a t3 sonar was that the bigger range is compensation enough.

Any proposal should aim to be an advantage for sera in some situations and a disadvantage in others. If the t2 sonar could move, it would need to get less range. And there were discussions to make t3 sonar not able to move anymore either, which would make the current sera range advantage more meaningful too.

Ups, you are right, I knew that the sonars are mobile, but never realized the speed of these !!!

[TheKoopa]

But having more range than other t2 sonar is hardly an advantage. T3 sonars come out extremely early, have a big range, and are mobile so you can get the necessary intel in a location away from base.

Sera t2 sonar is indeed broken and doesn't leave them with a lot of options for late game navy intel gathering. So, there are 2 ways to "fix" this:

1) make the sera t2 sonar mobile
2) Double (or increase in some way) the range of the sera t2 navy

And there were discussions to make t3 sonar not able to move anymore either, which would make the current sera range advantage more meaningful too.

Zock, ever heard of the saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it?"

[ZLO_RD]

Id suggest making it better in any way, or in every way better than other sonars BUT NOT MOBILE, I guess that is just my opinion... could maybe make it being underwater/more hp/less power drain

[Mycen]

There need to be very good reasons to add new units to the game. The sera sonar question is not big enough to warrant making a new unit for them, and if change is required, there are other options that don't need a new unit. So no t3 sonar. Moving t2 sonar or other solutions can be discussed, but I believe the idea of gpg when they didn't make a t3 sonar was that the bigger range is compensation enough.

The bad Seraphim sonar also used to help balance out how powerful T3 sub hunters were. With aggressive use of torp bombers you could limit Sera naval intel. Now that Yathsous aren't particularly good, it wouldn't be unreasonable to address their sonar.

What if the Seraphim Sonar had radar/sonar stealth and was submerged? Kind of a naval version of a Selen. Even better if it was recognized as a unit, not a structure, so that once scouted it could 'disappear' again.

[zolikk]

Moving t2 sonar or other solutions can be discussed, but I believe the idea of gpg when they didn't make a t3 sonar was that the bigger range is compensation enough.

I wonder why they didn't just make Sera sonar hierarchy the same as the other factions, though...

[crispyambulance]

Zock, I thought the same thing about the original decision, that the increased range at T2 would be compensation enough. It took playing nearly 100 joe-level games as Sera navy, but I got disabused of that notion. I have been shocked by the nearly unanimous support for my position

The issue is the lack of mobility more than anything else, at least as long as the other factions have mobility.

Simply making the T2 sonar mobile and submersible would be an interesting solution that creates parity, preserves diversity and doesn't require adding a unit. Sera would sacrifice intel radius to make their sonar harder to kill than other factions.

[ax0lotl]

I'm for faction diversity, so also for limitations on units. The range already is T2,5. T2,5 units fit with Sera, I'd say. (Why not make the sera gunship T2,5?)
Making T2 sonar mobile would make it too good. As I understand the T3 sonars will be made more expensive anyway, that would make the sera T2 sonar relatively better.
Making the Sera T2 sonar submersed might be a nice idea.