The misfits

[yeager]

When I say the misfits I mean those units that don't get used enough, you know what I'm talking about.
•Gunships
Primarily uef and sera, but also cybran and aeon, these gunships are so underused it's not funny, flak is so ridiculously dominant at t2 and at t3 uef and cybran still have a lot of issues.Im not sure how to resolve this, maybe a heavy increase in hp? Or some gimmick to boost them. cybran t2 is fine with a meaty blast and decent life, and Aeon is Ok, but everything else is just not worth using compared to fighter bombers and strategic bombers.
•t2 arty
This unit is meh. I would suggest increasing the range to slightly past that of tml, or something of the kind.
•t1 subs
I would suggest a small damage boost, cause currently they just aren't worth building, I would also equalize HP on engineers and make sera and aeon vulnerable to torpedoes.

•LAB
I don't dare walk into the abis that is LAB arguements, so I'm stopping here.
•t1 aa
No one talks about these guys, but I say give em some love, it's ridiculous when 5 of them fail to stop a t1 bomber.
•mobile shields
Poor guys just aren't worth using, I would suggest a big decrease in e cost or a reduction in damage transfer.(note: I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BULWARK!!!) especially sera t3 shield, it's just not worth using.
•and last but not least, the poor old air staging facility, I need not talk about these poor units, the issue is there is no easy way to fix it
So those are the guys I think, tell me whatcha think

[Zeldafanboy]

I see gunships being used all the time, especially Broadswoards and Renegades. And T1 Mobile AA is certainly not an underused unit and it does decently against T1 air. But I think most of what you said is true (T1 subs especially)

I would also add Aeon T3 Shield Disruptors and Sparkies

[yeager]

Maybe it's just my lvl but I rarely see broadswords get used, if If i see a gunship then there is a 95% chance it's a aagunship, a renegade, or a t1 cyb gunship
Good point on the disruptor and engi

[Reaper Zwei]

Eh just cause you don't see a unit get built doesn't mean it isn't a good unit or that it is too weak. T1 subs I think need a bit of a buff and the sera t3 shield may need one but that's all I see on the list that may need a buff.

[Apofenas]

I only agree on t1 sub, t1 lab and t1 maa.

I have absolutely no idea how gunships can be useless. Your whole point is based on getting one flak and kill all gunships straight. I got to disapoint you - you won't do that even with 10 in 1v1 0n 20x20 map. You need a lot of flaks to cover all your expansions and groups of units. Gunships may just pick one, kill flak, destroy other units and fly away. If player knows about air staging facility, he will repair gunships for free and repeat, making you to deal with full hp gunships every time. You can't compare those with units that actually deserve to be in your list - fighter/bombers. So as with a late game option like strats. If you want gunships to be better, than just stop playing isis-,rohan-,thermo-,seton-shit.

Air staging facility is an extremely usefull unit. Its only problem is managing units to land. Too long to use, too much to micro. It could be changed with making units land faster and with adding button "send damage/low fuel units to AF" and separate those from other air units.

T2 arty is a usefull unit too. It is used in t3-t4 stages, which is kinda weird spot for a t2 unit. But it's not useless. Ithilis tried to make it used more. This ended with game turning into t2 arty creep from a t2 stage and long turtle fest after. Not an interesting game meta. Your idea is not so much better. If i'm not mistaken it used to take place in vanila SC and got removed for same reason i described.

Mobile shields are worth using. But they have weird place in game too. Currently t2 shields are worth using with t3 units when their power cost isn't a big issue, but they don't have a lot of impact at t2 stage other than defending ACU. Sera t3 shield is a weird unit - less hp/mass than t2 shields.

Absolver is a very usefull unit. Once you have 3 of them - enemy will have no shields. That's very usefull in destroying fire base, so as destroying personal shields. That's very usefull when you face Rambo SCUs, shielded units and harbs. Funny thing: absolver has just enough damage to take out harb shield for one shot.

T3 gunships are good units. Blame ASFs that prevent you from using all other air units once you reach t3. Sparkey is usefull unit too, for example watch ZLO in last Gyle cast.

I'd add to your list next units: Shard, Sera t3 shield, Janus/notha, Riptide, Titan, Vesper, Omen, Unused SCU upgrades.

[briang]

Oh where to begin. I don't agree with the entirety of this list and your solutions make no sense. I hope you appreciate the civility of this reply.

I don't know who you are playing with or on what maps you play on but T3 gunships are some of the most powerful and we'll balanced units in the game.

Let's look at one of your suggestions: "Increase T2 arty range to a little over TML range."

Firstly, T2 arty is powerful in the situations it is meant to be powerful in. As for the suggestion, it pretty much crushes the Naval Units - Static Defense balance anf makes T2 arty a mini game ender on 5x5.

"Solutions" to invisible problems are not what we need. Half of these units and your gripes are explained very simply through cost analysis (you know... that little thing the game is based on). If you can find a concrete problem and give me 4 replays with players above 1500 with a timestamp and an explanation, everyone here would be more than happy to read your suggestions.

The worst thing is the "T3 Seraphim shield is not worth using" comment. That honestly made me question whether this thread was serious or not. Those shields are one of the only reasons people don't just Ctrl+K once game reaches T3 stage in a non-mirror game with Seraphim. They are absolutely fantastic.

I can't comment on the T1 mobile AA gripe without going ballistic so I won't.

@Apofenas SCU upgrades deserve a look but the rest of that list makes no sense. Really? Omens? 3Rd best batitleship by a slI'm margin. In terms of underuse it makes even less sense to throw the Omen in. They are built in every game that involves Aeon navy (i.e. every naval ladder game with Aeon and every Seton's with an Aeon naval player). Even the Shard is situationally incredibly good, which is of course all you can ask of it.

[yeager]

i talked about the sera t3 shield in the post lol.
ok, I guess the gunship strategy could be interesting, I've just never seen it done. all I've seen is if you come across a base without aa, build fighter bombers, if you come across a base with aa, build fighter bombers.
t2 arty isn't used THAT much, my issue is, as you referenced, its a t2 unit that has absolutely no use in the t2 stage. maybe for driving off mml but thats it.
it is very rare that i see t2 (and t3) mobile shields be anything else but cumbersome. on occasion they are nice, but at t2 you simply can't handle them and at t3 1 mobile arty aiming at the front most unit in the army tears down all the shields before they even come in contact, t2 arty can do this too. and the unit itself rarely to never has time to recharge, ESPECIALLY sera t3.

air staging is meh. a player who builds and uses them will do better, but its such a hassle they are very often forgotten.

never talked about the absolver, although zeld did..

shard is great, just not when you consider the fact it should be built into the frigate.

so your saying t3 gunship is great, just NOT PRACTICAL AT ALL because of asf. and id agree, its a good unit. but asf

janus and notha are literally the bomb, 8 nothas kill a com pretty well, and janus, although not top notch, is a base wrecker

riptide sucks, you are very right

titan kinda sucks, but isn't useless, i see titan used in games that involve loyalists and herbs farm more than i see gunships used in games that involve a real t2 air presence.

i build 2-3 sparky, arounnd fire bases and coms mostly.

Omen is great

which unused scum upgrades?

[yeager]

Oh where to begin. I don't agree with the entirety of this list and your solutions make no sense. I hope you appreciate the civility of this reply.

I don't know who you are playing with or on what maps you play on but T3 gunships are some of the most powerful and we'll balanced units in the game.

Let's look at one of your suggestions: "Increase T2 arty range to a little over TML range."

Firstly, T2 arty is powerful in the situations it is meant to be powerful in. As for the suggestion, it pretty much crushes the Naval Units - Static Defense balance anf makes T2 arty a mini game ender on 5x5.

"Solutions" to invisible problems are not what we need. Half of these units and your gripes are explained very simply through cost analysis (you know... that little thing the game is based on). If you can find a concrete problem and give me 4 replays with players above 1500 with a timestamp and an explanation, everyone here would be more than happy to read your suggestions.

The worst thing is the "T3 Seraphim shield is not worth using" comment. That honestly made me question whether this thread was serious or not. Those shields are one of the only reasons people don't just Ctrl+K once game reaches T3 stage in a non-mirror game with Seraphim. They are absolutely fantastic.

i do lol


ill just point out i was referring to MOBILE t3 sera shield, sorry if that wasn't clear

[briang]

Yes. I am telling you it is the best T3 land unit Seraphim have.

T3 Gunships excel when you are ahead on air, just like every other air to ground unit in the game. There is often an inflection point in games where they become much more effective against navy than torps. As for how they fair against land, they should almost always be a part of the mix, 1 Strat to kill Flak and there you go...

[yeager]

thats saying a ton.....
the strength is great, but if it goes down your done, no chance its coming back up in any reasonable time