UEF Nano

[d-_-b]

i understand that a while ago UEF nano was deemed too OP, and nerfed. It previously costed significantly more, but gave 200HP/s regeneration. This rendered it immune to the damage of 1 Guncom or ~6 T1 tanks.

As it stands, Nano gives +60 hp/s regeneration.

For its cost, this is insufficient and enough to render it a "useless" upgrade, when considering the other upgrade on this slot, T2 gives +20 hp/s regeneration and 3K health. And that 3K health bonus makes ALL the difference.

Testing 2 UEF guncoms against each other, one with nano, one with T2, they mutually annihilate (by gunshot, not by explosion damage) However, Nano costs more. Alot more (especially power wise, but also ~2x the mass), with T2 one also has the advantage of having the extra buildpower, the ability to build shields, flak, radar etc, spam T1 pd... etc, and later on upgrade to T3, T2 is undoubtedly the ONLY choice.

Now, this was of course in a single engagement with a single enemy of equal firepower however that was simply the reference. Nano would come out ontop in a protracted battle with breaks inbetween to allow for regeneration. However, still, in direct firefight, for a significantly greater cost, Nano provides the same survivability vs a single guncom (actually less as the amount of firepower on you increases)

Given that there is a tradeoff in effectiveness between regeneration and healthpool to regenerate, id seriously suggest not necessarily that nano should give greater regen, but that it should give a healthboost +2K would allow it to survive a direct engagement with a T2 guncom if there is a ~10-12s lull where the acu can regenerate, again as more firepower is brought to bear on a nanocom this advantage diminishes. (to provide the same survivability in a single engagement without the health boost, the regen would have to be 93, rendering it nearly immune to a stock ACU, which was the problem with the high regen in the first place)

Currently, there must be at least a 1 Minute break in fighting where the nano acu is allowed to regenerate untouched for it to even emerge victorious (at almost 0 hp) against its T2 brother.

As the close-range deathnuke does 2.5K dmg, the outcome will be the same vs any other race's T2/Gun

Given that you already pay heavily by not having a T2 engineering suite i'd say this might make nano at least a decent option in a niche battlecom scenario, rather than being no option at all.

I wouldn't say this is a serious issue, however, i do think the upgrade was nerfed TOO hard (the reduction in price did not equal its reduction in effectiveness), and it just pains me a bit to see the option for it there, and knowing it's inferior to a significantly cheaper choice.

[IceDreamer]

As ever, I think a mix is the best approach. A slight reduction in costs. Perhaps a big reduction in built-time, so this is the fast resource sink one. 2000 HP plus a small boost to the regen, say up to 80/s. A bit here, a bit there, but do NOT underestimate the value of the T2/T3 alternative upgrade path. I might even go so far as to suggest a new upgrade be introduced as a second stage to nano, to combat the T3 option.

[Ithilis_Quo]

and it just pains me a bit to see the option for it there, and knowing it's inferior to a significantly cheaper choice.

It pains me too!

id seriously suggest not necessarily that nano should give greater regen, but that it should give a healthboost +2K would allow it to survive a direct engagement with a T2 guncom

your suggestion is exaktli same as how its work in equilibrium.

[manread]

Well I gave some thuoght to this a while ago and considered making it like a field engineer similar to the sparky. This would give it a boost in regen/hp that is larger than the t2 upgrade, but limit its build option to what the sparky can build (plus what the t1 com can build in the t1 stage ie factories, pgens, t1 mexes etc.).

I never came up with exact numbers but it would give the uef acu a unique upgrade which is good for faction diversity and present a proper alternative to the t2/t3 upgrade path.

[d-_-b]

Reduction in buildtime works, since you can't get it quickly by having T2 like you can get shield in 50s.

Also i quite like the idea to combine manread's "Combat Engineering" upgrade idea and leave it with small health boost and regen boost, with sparky suite, with the option to 2nd tier upgrade to a more serious nano to compete with T3.

Although remember, if you boost HP AND regen sigificantly greater than T2, AND give buildpower and defensive tech, it's no longer so seriously gimped to justify being cheaper. Regen and total HP are synergistic. For example, a 4K health boost and +70 regen should allow a nano acu to survive a t2 acu with ~4.5K health left.

Also check how expensive sera Nano is, need to make sure that it isn't outclassed at least in cost effectiveness (can assume always T2+Nano numbers for sera)

[yeager]

if i could change au upgrades the first thing i would do is fix this, useless upgrades are bad. Id kick up the regen by just enough that a uef com could jump in and out of t1 combat all day long and be fine, and from there maybe a health boost. I also like the idea of making it a really quick upgrade. Splitting the upgrade and creating a t3 counterpart would also be interesting, although I'm not sure they need to be stronger in the t3/t4 stage. This upgrade and sera gun (the expensive one) both need some help, but this one the most

[Iszh]

On the same slot is a t2 and t3 engi suite. So you have only 2 options to fix it, either increase it to be as strong/stronger as t3 engi (the 200hp/s was not op maybe the cost was simply to low) with its cost, or make it a cheap light rush upgrade. For the lategame option there are 2 different ways, create a super upgrade like sera nano or teleporter and laser or create an average good t3 upgrade. To create a rush upgrade there are as well 2 options. First option is to make it really cheap alike stealth on cybran acu add 10/hp s for 300 mass cost. The second option here is make it stronger to be alike it is now more expensive than t2 engi and make it built time efficient. Make the built time so low that you can get it very fast and make it worth on this way. If you leave it as it is atm and simply reduce built time to 1/3rd it is still good for a rush even without hp. If you chose the built time option you need to make it not mass effective means it has to be "useless" for its cost like it is now. the difference is you can do it in "nearly no" time in middle of enemy base.

Overview: (values are not for taking into game just as example for understanding what i want to describe)
1.) Make it equal to t3 for example add 6k hp and nano life regen for arround 4k mass cost high e cost
2.) Make it mega upgrade to enable "uef lategame rambo" with gun, billy and nano - add 30k hp 250 hp/s and built time of 126 without any engi plans that you are able to get billy rockets in 30s - 10k mass as usual extreme e cost
3.) Make it built time efficient same like it is atm just 1/3 or 1/4 built time
4.) Make it 15 hp/s for 350 mass cost to rush a gun com


I personally think option no. 1 is useless sind shield und t3 engi still does better and to have shield and nano same time is ueless in this configuration because the 1 gun upgrade is not enough to make rambo acu worth for uef. Option no.4 could to to easy OP in 1v1 especially. Option no.3 is not sure if it will really work out. Option no.2 is what i would really love to see a late game rambo with 40k life and billy on top full veteran like 50-60k hp. still not as strong as telemazer but at least the same funny since the acu has t3 built rate and lots of life it can teleport and spam t1 pds thats alike telemazer with lower damage but higher life. Funny also would be if you are really really careful make nano double shield and ras and sit your acu with nearly arround 100k hp in water As well funny shield and nano and gun you get a 70k hp monster acu with oc in battle.
Ok option no. 2 most of people would consider to be "to much" so i suppose realistic approach will be another. But as i told all have their problems either they are op or still useless. In fact i read so far here in this thread about option no.4 and no.1. Interesting if there are more. Pleaaaassse think about option no.2 as well

[Ithilis_Quo]

Iszh you forget about option
no.5 : add 3000hp and keep other same. Or
No.6: add 2000hp and lover hp from t2 (all faction) witch is suport upgrade, not military.

Im big fan of 6option. And can proofe that it also work. (it doesnt mean that other not)

[Iszh]

I didnt mention those two options because i considered them to be useless. They are between t2 and t3 engi (in the middle of my suggestions) and will be always the worse decision and therefore it would be still completely irrelevant like it is atm. Of course you can say if you go in somewhere you could do this for medium game, but to have t2 engi plans and built power vs air attacks and so on will be ALWAYS better than to have a bit more life. And again you are like korbah you have both good ideas but i 100% dislike to start with "i want to change 1 thing but for changing it i need to adept 10 other things in the game (in your case reducing t2 engi which will again estrange the game feeling from what it is now. this is in general a problem of your mod. your ideas are good no question but you should think over your ideas 2 times more and find a way to reach results with times less changes. We play this game because we like it as it is and changing it in small steps. If i want to play another game i buy another game.)".

[Ithilis_Quo]

Duuude Duuude. My sugeation only add 3000hp is much less thing changing as your completly owerhal nano upgrade. So what is going on?

6option is yes also diferent topic but we cant miss it, because of course it would be all time compares with t2 because you canot have both and nano need be choice not troll upgrade. And honestly isnt 3000hp 20regen 42bp and t2 quite op for price that is half as nano?

3000hp is big diferenceses, maybe it dont looks like. But efectivnes of regeneration with hp rise exponencional. More hp is also more hp from vet.

Sera nano 2000m 75regen 6000hp its very solid upgrade. Add only 15 more regen and 3000hp. Its realy not bad. I know it i test it.like i dont say other options are bad, but i say you forget on this valid options