Ilshavoh

[Morax]

Explain, please. I'm unsure how Zock and ZLO ok'ed this.

What kind of testing was done to warrant this much of a slow-down? I really don't think it's that overpowered for its cost. Most people just don't know how to deal with it like Aurora.

[Aulex]

I am on the balance team.

When did that happen?

[yeager]

It ogt another speed nerf? i thought it was the turn rate, either way, its stupid as hell

[Aulex]

The day after Zock was announced balance councilor.

I just haven't done much because I have either been away or at football 2-a-days for the last 2 months.

Oh you mean balance testing, not balance team

[Morax]

Sorry to be a bastard here, but could we stay on topic?

My free time for FaF-related things are given to my own playing and running the WWPC, hardly enough to test balance beta.

What the hell guys. This was one of my fav units and it wasn't a guaranteed win by any means. Now it's like watching a blind person trying to do gymnastics.

[Zock]

What kind of testing was done to warrant this much of a slow-down?

Some sandboxing, 1 month of closed testing with the balance test group, and one month of testing with the open beta, during which not a single concern was raised against it. If you have some, this would have been the best time to voice them.

There were numerous complains against ilshies being too strong on some maps, but we didn't want to straight out nerf them because sera needs them, so this change aims to make it somewhat weaker when getting swarmed. especially vs t1, but doesn't affect t2 too much when used correctly (kiting/standoffs, low turret turn rate doesn't matter very much there). We started with a smaller nerf, but it turned out to be not enough to matter. The numerical value looks more impactful than it is, did you play some games with it yet? Don't jump to conclusions based on a number and give it some time.

And don't forget that a jump from 180 to 70 seems much by itself, but compared to the 90 of the Pillar or 75 of the Obsidian it gets a different perspective. The key advantage of the Ilshie is the range, and that is not touched.

[Exotic_Retard]

while im not really clear as to why this was done specifically, its not as bad as it looks -
the ilshie turn rate is lower than its turret turn rate, so in most cases the turret will turn faster than the bot, meaning it can fire while walking in circles, unlike the mantis.



still it would be nice if more info was available on the process and the reasons behind this nerf. please.

[Morax]

this change aims to make it somewhat weaker when getting swarmed. especially vs t1, but doesn't affect t2 too much when used correctly (kiting/standoffs, low turret turn rate doesn't matter very much there).

First and foremost, yes of course I played with it in the beta and noticed it was tougher to use when swarmed and it became necessary to micro the unit. The ilshavoh is supposed to be a brute force unit in my opinion, not something that requires being babied like a weak Aurora.

I can sympathize with that, but as-was 2 pillars would take down 1 ilshavoh and it IS EASY AS HELL to produce Pillars

Ilshavoh cost: Economy: mass: 360, energy: 1800, build time: 1600
PIllar cost: Economy: mass: 198, energy: 990, build time: 880
Obsidian (same cost and time which explains why it can counter it well): Economy: mass: 360, energy: 1800 (-10), build time: 1600
Rhino Tank: Economy: mass: 297, energy: 1500, build time: 1320
Wagner (proper t2 counter for Cybran as rhino has lower dps and crap like cerberus turret): Economy: mass: 297, energy: 1980, build time: 1320

I think the real problem here is that a lot of players don't understand the importance of scouting and switching to higher tech if there opponent is doing so.

There is a critical "down time" while upgrading to t2 and while I play Sera 1v1 I never understand why Cybran players just keep pumping out mantis and medusa while I'm quiet. You in general have to hold back a little during this period of time and as any other race this is the time to stop Seraphim from becoming too brutal. The early stage with a few ilshavohs is not that painful as they won't handle a huge huge group of t1. I tend to attack heavy before there are a half dozen of them on the field at which point even 50 mantis will perish in a minute.

As a race against Aeon, you have to go air heavy / gun comm / or t2 rush to battle the aurora tank.

I played some FaF balance beta patch games with you Zock, but they were all silly mass team games where we all clumped in for some fun rather being asked to test key aspects of the balance

Maybe next time lay down the hammer and say "Please don't join unless you want to help."

I promise you I will listen. I work VERY hard at running my tournament and keeping people happy in FaF.

[theeggroll]

I think the changes made to sera were good changes, they made the parts of sera that were op a little less op, but now sera has nothing. I think that a nice buff to sera t3 and a few other things would make sera very balanced and not useless anymore.

[Valki]

Othuum's should get an additional weapon, namely: "Suthanus Heavy Artillery Cannon"
Only available when deployed.