future of SCUs

[Col_Walter_Kurtz]

So much ideas thrown around, while the whole issue is simply that they are too strong for the cost. Either nerf their HP / shield / weapons or increase cost. Why redesign the whole game concept?

[keyser]

pip kinda redisigned it the first time, that's why spam scu is strong nowadays.
so why not redesign it back ?

[yeager]

Well it was clear scu's needed more than just some more hp and damage, but it really doesn't seem necessary here, they are in a pretty good spot, they just need a nerf

[ckitching]

In that case you could also limit the number of gates to 1 and remove assist.

Well, that's kinda been done for nukes, remember. Assisting them jsnr very effective: maybe quantum gates should be similar?

[Mycen]

In that case you could also limit the number of gates to 1 and remove assist.

Well, that's kinda been done for nukes, remember. Assisting them jsnr very effective: maybe quantum gates should be similar?

Still the best way to balance them. You likely wouldn't even need to limit the number of quantum gates to one if you just make them (effectively) unassistable. If someone wants to spam SCUs they'll really have to invest in it.

Also, it would finally make SCU building logical - if on-site construction units can build them, why do they need to be teleported in in the first place?

[Mechsangoku]

Wow,

Build time is masive on those, a non assited single quantum gate will be kinda useless no ?

[yeager]

I personally think that is a stupid answer, hard locks like this shouldnt be on regular units, that's a recipe for disaster. (Look at supcom 2)

[Korbah]

Wow,

Build time is masive on those, a non assited single quantum gate will be kinda useless no ?

You could rebalanced the base build time to a lower number factoring the quantum gate would not be assisted

[Mycen]

Wow,

Build time is masive on those, a non assited single quantum gate will be kinda useless no ?

Five minutes (for the most heavily upgraded SCU, at that) hardly seems "massive" to me, it's not like we're talking about building a Mavor with a T3 engi here... But I definitely agree that limiting a player to one gateway only would be a step too far - seems unnecessary and counterintuitive.

I personally think that is a stupid answer, hard locks like this shouldnt be on regular units, that's a recipe for disaster. (Look at supcom 2)

A fully customizable unit that is good at just about everything... that hardly sounds like a "regular" unit to me. The whole point of SCUs is that they're not supposed to be regular units, after all, they're supposed to pretty much be extra commanders. If ever there was a unit for which a hard lock is appropriate, it would be these. (Much more so than nukes, really.)

Also, a big theme of this thread is about how SCU spam is too powerful, and this would work well to reduce the power of SCU spam without having to dramatically restructure their balance - they'd still be powerful, and you could still spam them if you want, but you would need to build several gateways, so it would require a bit of an investment and some time, instead of popping out a bunch of them as soon as you get to T3. As it is, at 3k a pop gateways aren't that expensive to begin with, so it's not even that much of a limiting factor if you really want lots of them.

You could rebalanced the base build time to a lower number factoring the quantum gate would not be assisted

^^

[andybe]

did i miss a scu buff ? or how come they are suddenly op?

for all i knew they were very cost inefficient in all regards o.O.
The only times you use them is

when you either have too much mass cause the fightingpower per unit exceeds that of t3 units (naturally with that cost),

to reclaim in contested areas cause of speed Hp BP, since any other unit gets one shot...
for the same reason you'd want a scu build forward bases / or do a PD drop rush on enemy base ( which is a valid yet easily counterable strategy).
Or to reclaim under sea cause they can only be hit by torps.

then of course there are additional special roles to scu of diff factions:

the seraphim can get really really really tanky, which make sthem marvelous combat units( I haven't done the math on them when it comes to cost efficiency, but they usually get countered the same way a GC would)
or they are a nice way to snipe enemy coms.
cybrans huge regeneration and rapidfire stun makes them incredibly strong as anti t1-3 spam unit. But they are weak against t4. The AA is also a very nice feat.
UEF offers a nice shield though compared to the tankiness of the seraphim thats neglectable lol... almost no one uses them for their bubbles sadly - must be cause they are hardly effective.
Aeon, iI barely ever see in action, unless theres some unprotected area they can teleport to and suicide, a very expensive maneuver tho.


well thats how i perceived them anyway