Air Leverage - Improving Air Gameplay (Mod v6 out now!)

[Korbah]

There's a lot of discussion recently about air.

From that discussion we've seen a variety of opinions from a wide array of players. The spectrum of opinion ranges from "no changes are required" to wild suggestions with outlandish near-total reworks. In an unstructured forum environment the wildly disparate opinions are impossible to reconcile and un-moderated discussion rarely seems productive.

Ultimately any change that will garner community support will need to satisfy the conservative elements of the community - in accepting this provision it must then be understood that FAF gameplay should still play and feel like FAF after any kind of adjustment to air. For those seeking different a new "feel" I would suggest one of the many excellent reworks/TC mods already available.

For those still interested in a conservative approach to addressing some of the perceived issues with air then keep reading....





I have already produced a small, focussed mod that targets some of the issues with air - namely T2 and ASF. This mod is available in the vault as "Air Leverage v4". I have no intention of dramatically reworking FAF's air metagame - merely nudging it selectively to improve the strategic choices available to players to broaden the overall gameplay.

The current balance discussion here in the forum is currently completely unstructured and entirely unsuitable for actually testing and progressing a balance mod. In order to promote a meaningful balance mod test I've decided to post this thread and hopefully use it as a benchmark by which other future mods can work from.

To participate in the thread you'll need to actually trial and play the mod - that's the whole point of having a balance mod discussion thread. Once you've played the mod I'd encourage you to then post comments and observations with the relevant replay referenced to illustrate your point. Your opinions are irrelevant if you've not actually played the mod and I'd ask that you don't post at all (and if you do I'll request for them to be deleted). It's perfectly appropriate to comment on another player's replay that you've watched - the idea is to discover issues, bugs, positives and negatives as a community and share feedback. Replays are vital - without actual evidence to substantiate your observations then your insight is fictitious. As the mod author I will attempt to moderate discussion in this thread to be constructive and further the development of the mod (note that I am not against criticism and welcome and constructive insights).

With some discipline and structure we can hopefully start a trend whereby balance mods are effectively trialled by the community. In doing so the community will be able identify and trial positive changes, discarding the dross, and eventually deliver a better FAF for us all.

[Korbah]

Air Leverage v6 Changelog:


v6 vs v5 changes summary:
- death weapons cybran/aeon t2 transport added
- T2/3 transport death values increased
- reduce static flak range on t2 in line with old values
- t1 stealth transport ability added
- -1 t2 transport speeds back to stock 15 values


T1 Changes:

- T1 transports have a toggle stealth ability with a large (race specific) energy drain ~4-500 in size. Can be activated from t1 but needs eco to support it. Useful for late game small drops/expansions
- Stealth E costs:
- 400 cybran
- 450 UEF
- 475 sera
- 500 aeon



T2 Changes:

**FighterBombers**
UEF/Sera/Cybran t2 FBomber Max Air Speed -> 15 to 17
UEF/Sera/Cybran t2 FBomber Min Air Speed -> 10 to 12
Aeon Swiftwing Air Speed -> 18 to 17
Aeon Swiftwing TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 2
UEF t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1.25
UEF t2 FBomber Bomb FiringRandomness -> 0.1 to 0
Sera t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1.1
Sera t2 FBomber death damage -> 200 (from 25 - standardised vs other races)
Cybran t2 FBomber TurnSpeed -> 1.5 to 1


**Ground AA**
Stationary t2 aa Built time reduced to 75%,
Aeon Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 30 to 34. 2 projectiles instead of 1 (it's dps was ~1/2 of all other races), Range 50
UEF Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 25 to 32. Range 46
Cybran Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 20 to 28. Range 44
Seraphim Stationary t2 aa Muzzle Velocity -> 25 to 32. Range 48

T2 MAA -> Flak AoE all races -1 (4 -> 3)
T2 MAA -> x2 energy cost (800 -> 1600)


**T2/3 Transports**
T2 Aeon transport -> range 26 AA, 6 -> 15dmg per gun (the best AA transport)
T2 Seraphim transport -> range 28, no AA dmg buff, reworked anti-ground autocannon into a 1xAoE slow firing long range cannon (the best long-range seige transport, most transport slots)
T2 Cybran transport -> range 24, 25% AA dmg buff, x4 dmg emp gun (emp, weakest anti-ground dmg, adequate AA, fewest transport slots)
T2 UEF Transport -> range 24, x3 anti-ground dps (solid all round dps, best HP)
T2 Transport crash - 250dmg all races
T3 UEF Transport crash - 500dmg
T2/3 Transport HP -> +60% HP
T2/3 Transport Cost -> x2 Mass and Energy, +60% build timer



T3 Changes:

**Ground AA**
T3MAA -> 1/2 build timer, +.2 speed, 640 mass (from 800) (T3MAA are not in a useful place. For similar cost to a SAM you get <1/3 of the HP, 54 vs 60 range, slower build - eg. no reason to buy especially when t2 flak

is so good. With this change T3MAA still aren't cost effective but you can produce them in 2.5 time the rate of t2 flak for x4 the cost. They're still not a really great unit but they're certainly better than before)
T3 SAMs -> all HP's rebalanced to x2 the HP of their static flak (sams are x2 the cost but had more dps, range and much more HP for cost. Hence nerf to base HP)

**ASF's**
T3 ASF Cost -> +150 Mass (350 -> 500)
T3 ASF Cost -> +50% build timer (3000 -> 4500)
T3 ASF Speed -> -2 (25 -> 23)
T3 ASF Fuel Timer -> now identical to T2 FB timer
T3 Scout Cost -> x2 energy (7500 -> 15000)
T3 Scout Cost -> 3000 build timer (900 -> 3000)

**Intel**
Reduce t3 radar range by -200 (600 -> 400)
Reduce t3 omni range by 80 (200 -> 120)



T4 Changes:

Experimental Build Timer Changes:
Monkeylord -> x2 build timer
Soulripper -> x1.5 build timer
Megalith -> x2.1 build timer
Fatboy -> x1.8 build timer
Galatic Colossus -> x1.8 build timer
Ythotha -> x1.9 build timer
Tempest -> x1.5 build timer
Atlantis -> x1.5 build timer

[KD7BCH]

Have to agree with you, Korbah, radically reworking FA belongs in mods, tweaking to add utility where this none but should be or enhancing the paradigms that exist is what we should endeavor to do.

I look forward to when we can test your mod together.

[ZenTractor]

While I don't think that any minor tweaks go far enough, I'm more than happy to discuss them. Let's try for the best balance that we can get, before suggesting reworks, and reworks should be in their own mods.

That said, I had a giant post as to why I would propose the rework I would, so I can cut and paste some relevant bits.


Air is rife with hard counters. Anti-air units are very, very strong. A single mobile flack unit is enough to kill upwards of 10 gunships. It's kinda silly. No other layer of the game has to deal with such win/lose dichotomies, and I'm not sure air should too. While most units with large AOE or splash damage have to pay for it with low DPS or hard to land shots like arty do, flack gets to keep its full DPS while also hitting everything.

Also, while a tech 1 tank can still shoot at a tech 3 tank, however meagre its damage, a tech 1 anti-air unit almost always misses tech three air flying overhead. This isn't just 'practically deals no damage' this is 'literally has no effect whatsoever'.

I strongly support buffing anti-air units so that they can actually hit higher tech units, especially tech 1 anti-air units.

If we could get tech 1 static AA to a similar position to tech 1 PD then I think it would help things. Then we can nudge flack towards "build this if you need AOE, stick with T1 if you need dps", which I think would extend the windows of opportunity for gunships and t2 planes.

[ZenTractor]

So we played a big multiplayer Gap of Rohan game with the mod, and it seemed to work. I probably didn't eco hard enough, and split too much stuff into land units to really get the timing right on my tech-ups to be relevant.

When I did attack with T2 it was gunships or corsair snipes, and they pretty much evaporated in the face of large numbers of flack, both mobile and static.

With the mass increase of ASF I ended up overflowing more power than I expected. I had built a bunch of storage to mitigate the stalls, but they just never happened. Mass was more of a concern.

5-10 strats still dominated and killed things, but 1-3 were scared off by a dozen mobile flack.

Replay is attached. Desyncs at the 30min mark when blue gets mazercom'd. Still progresses as I remember.

[KD7BCH]

So we played a big multiplayer Gap of Rohan game with the mod, and it seemed to work. I probably didn't eco hard enough, and split too much stuff into land units to really get the timing right on my tech-ups to be relevant.

When I did attack with T2 it was gunships or corsair snipes, and they pretty much evaporated in the face of large numbers of flack, both mobile and static.

With the mass increase of ASF I ended up overflowing more power than I expected. I had built a bunch of storage to mitigate the stalls, but they just never happened. Mass was more of a concern.

5-10 strats still dominated and killed things, but 1-3 were scared off by a dozen mobile flack.

Replay is attached. Desyncs at the 30min mark when blue gets mazercom'd. Still progresses as I remember.

I think this was a good example of how it extended T2 a good 5-10 more minutes and kept the ASF swarming down. We played another game later on that night which was even more demonstrative of later gameplay with similar circumstances. Nice snipe by the way, I had a few words about Andrew's Air player slot play only building 5 interceptors before my death, as I thought that was unfortunate for the testing but watching the replay twice I see the T2 FBs were effective against all but the hardest targets. Strats were still needed to crack the shielded and hardest targets which is in line with how stock plays however there were no major ASF swarms and in the later game same concept, more T2 FB action. I think it still needs some tweaks and we have to see how transports survive in T2 and T3 in the coming days but I like how it plays better than stock. How about you?

[Korbah]

Some good games today - obviously not high level play but there's enough there to demonstrate the effect of the mod on the duration of t2 and the slower ramp up of t3.

Clearly we need to get more games where the players are functioning at a higher standard to really see how the mod performs under pressure however, initial results are promising. I don't think there was any diminishing of the t3 late game - it just took longer to get there and the early strats that did come out were able to be harassed away whilst still doing some damage; a fair compromise I feel.

From an initial impression point of view I'm certainly positive - thx to all involved! Lets get some more replays

[KD7BCH]

Some good games today - obviously not high level play but there's enough there to demonstrate the effect of the mod on the duration of t2 and the slower ramp up of t3.

Clearly we need to get more games where the players are functioning at a higher standard to really see how the mod performs under pressure however, initial results are promising. I don't think there was any diminishing of the t3 late game - it just took longer to get there and the early strats that did come out were able to be harassed away whilst still doing some damage; a fair compromise I feel.

From an initial impression point of view I'm certainly positive - thx to all involved! Lets get some more replays

I wanna fly the Cybran tomorrow and see how effective the FB is vs the STrat

[ZLO_RD]

[quote="ZenTractor] Air is rife with hard counters. Anti-air units are very, very strong. A single mobile flack unit is enough to kill upwards of 10 gunships. It's kinda silly. No other layer of the game has to deal with such win/lose dichotomies, and I'm not sure air should too. While most units with large AOE or splash damage have to pay for it with low DPS or hard to land shots like arty do, flack gets to keep its full DPS while also hitting everything.

Also, while a tech 1 tank can still shoot at a tech 3 tank, however meagre its damage, a tech 1 anti-air unit almost always misses tech three air flying overhead. This isn't just 'practically deals no damage' this is 'literally has no effect whatsoever'.
[/quote]

I think t2 flack takes quite some time to kill t2 gueverything it can often kill them all in time that needs to kill one, but if you micro to spread them out and maybe even dodge flack shots you can kill 1 flack with 2 t2 gunships (if flack is not microed hard to dodge gunship shots) and you can use jesters similar way too to kill flack and then kill anything else. I personally made many gunship snipes where i just spread them out and it just takes to long for them to die and they kill everything. Ofc gunship numbers in that case were much larger than flack numbers...

I agree that air figst are very fast and unstable and fights can turn drasticly in favour of one player if t2 flack and bad micro is involved... Can't really think of a way how you would change that, cause planes move fast, all have pretty much same range and engage in fights all at once, so you can't retreat or make concave like land units would do. But t1 aa is kinda slow at killing air, 1 aa can deal with 1 gunship, but they rarely fly one by one, but in big blobs that can kill any kind of t1 aa one by one...

Also if you nerf ASF you don't think that t1 planes can get to strong against them? I know that in team games no one makes t1 air, but in 1v1 t1 air phase can last for 30 min or more. Cause you just have to make t1 air to deal with gunships, torp bombers, drops, t1 bombers... And player who lost air wiuld like to go t3 but then he will struggle against t1 air clouds, ASF fly in and never fly out xD.

[Korbah]

Also if you nerf ASF you don't think that t1 planes can get to strong against them? I know that in team games no one makes t1 air, but in 1v1 t1 air phase can last for 30 min or more. Cause you just have to make t1 air to deal with gunships, torp bombers, drops, t1 bombers... And player who lost air wiuld like to go t3 but then he will struggle against t1 air clouds, ASF fly in and never fly out xD.

In this mod there is no change to t1 air at all (check the changelog at the top of the post - all the changes are documented).

ASF are still supreme in the air. They just cost +150mass and -1 speed. What this means is that it's harder to spam them with a fast t3 build due to the increased mass cost - however, any ASF you do make are still excellent. Both the replays posted above show that when ASF are deployed they function as intended - decimating the T1 and T2 air forces. All that's changed compared to regular FAF is how many and how quickly those ASF appear.

This isn't a total conversion mod. It's intended as a small nudge to shift the gameplay direction of the mid-game back towards t2 and away from t3.