Balance & explanation

[keyser]

Yes an other balance discution... I want to do it differently than icedreamer/ithilis. I don't want to change 400000000 thing in the same time. Moreover this topic as the goal to explain why a unit is too strong.

The most important change to do :

HARBINGER : This unit has : a good ROF, a good dps, a good health, a good range, a good speed, possibility of reclaim/repair.
We need to nerf this unit.
=> it make this unit super effective against all low tier unit (T1/T2). And this unit is really good against loyalist/titan. in low number of unit, harbi does pretty well against T3.5 bot (especially bricks, because it's easy to dodge part of his dps).
This show how difficult it's to counter harbi with land unit.
Nowadays part of the aeon strategy is to rely on the fact the aurora is a really strong (not op) T1 unit. They will be able to defend bigger spam with lower unit more easily than other faction. The usual counter of aurora is to get T2 land and spam mongoose/hoplite/illshavo. The matter, is that if you want to set up a good T2 spam, you need to get your H + 2/3 assist T2 facto minimum. This take some time, that will allow the aeon to rush T3 land (no T2 land production) and to get harbi. You will have 0 counter against harbi (a part of your com). The only good way to deal against "spam aurora/rush T3" is too stay T1 land stage and to put your ressource into air, so you can get air control, and then harass him with gunship/bomber. (not to mention that if he has T3 land, he can produce flak/T3 maa).

TITAN : This unit has a good rof and speed. In comparaison to loyalist : lower dps, little more health (nearly nothing), way lower range, and no special ability.
We need to buff this unit.
I would be for more dps, and 1 special ability. (maybe make it easier to abuse shield regen, so we can had a micro dimension to it. (like shield on protos unit in starcraft 2))

UEF sACU : this unit has : a good rof, a good aoe, a good dps, a really good amount of life. the ability to build/reclaim thing pretty fast. The ability to leave no wrecks (suicide mission...). They even create resources +1 mass.
We need to nerf this unit.
i would be up for way less life on the shields upgrades. reduce the aoe, and the dps by a little.

(for the other sACU : sera is too strong against exp imo, cybran is really good with micro (it's really micro rewarding, but without micro this unit isn't really good, i feel like we don't need to change cybran sACU)).

ACU SERA TML :
We need to nerf it.
lot of idea already been said, i won't say more about it.

less important change :

RHINO : it's the weakest T2 tank unit for his price. (less dps per price than illshavo/obsidian; way less life than the other T2 tank) we should consider a little health or dps buff. rhino is accurate at 100% the matter is that it should terrain a lot. And rhino is ultra-shit against T1 pd.

Mercy : this unit is too much of a luck game imo. And having a game ending on a luck issue is a matter for me. we should consider lower it effectiveness against com, and make it better for sniping eco. (you can ithilis work for that, if i'm not mistaken)

Sniper Bot : i'm for removing the ability of shooting while walking for sniper bot. 95% of the shoot of walking sniper bot miss. removing this ability will allow us to micro them more easily (stop, shoot, walk) and make them more effective.
since othuums isn't a really good unit against T3.5 bot, and if we nerf harbi, we gonna need to buff sniper to be able to deal against T3.5 more easily.

wtf idea ? :

i would like to increase the BP of mega/fatboy/CZAR/atlantis, so that their factory ability isn't useless. (we need to be carefull about mega, so that it doesn't suck up wrecks too fast)

i would like to make the shield still active in transport. I don't understand why deceiver can work in a transport, but a shield cannot. we should maybe consider lower the shield efficiency in transport like make it 10% of the real shield (so there is no abuse).

i would like to make the personal stealth on T2 torpedo launcher act like unit under stealth. This mean that when you scouted the torpedo, if you don't have omni/vision over it anymore, you won't be able to target it. ground fire, and manual focus while the unit is in vision (unit will still shoot at the torpedo even if we don't have vision/omni on the torpedo launcher) will still be enable.

[Apofenas]

I'd like if you would also think about Cybran tml and UEF t3 navy.

[IceDreamer]

As you're about to find out, I try to keep things small and not change too much at once, but the number of tiny little things adds up

- I don't think Harbinger is an issue. It's really strong when rushed, weaker later one, but overall Aeon mid-late game transition is in a nice place right now.
- Titan needs something... I'm glad you didn't suggest more range, which is the easiest way to make it good, but makes it too close to Loyalist clone IMO. I'm interested to hear some special ability ideas, but personally I think the Titan is more misused than underpowered. A bit more DPS, a better, more abusable shield/HP ratio (Make it even better at hit & run), and even more speed could make it into a unique raiding unit. Also, consider the rocketpack model version as I reworked it for the testing mod???
- UEF sACU needs a range nerf. You can change that whole load of things you just said if you want, but seriously, a range nerf so it doesn't outrange Percivals etc, and a slight Shield HP nerf, get those and you're golden. Remember that as of the next patch, the hitboxes and targetbones are fixed, so things won't be missing so badly any more.
- Rhino needs something... I think it should remain crap against walled T1 PD, it's a nice bit of diversity, but it definitely needs something to make up for it.
- No clue what to do for Mercy
- Sniperbot sure, whatever.
- BP increase won't really work that well IMO. Trouble is, all it does is redirect resources. People don't play big enough maps to bother using them. Back at base they have much more bp and they also have adjacency benefits. If you're going to increase bp, I'd suggest turning the ability into an emergency-production self-defence thing, so we're going to have to be talking bp values in the thousands.
- Shields turn off in transports because stacking them up, especially with the original SupCom shield mechanics, made transports unstoppable, and hence drops too powerful. There's also the problem that, thanks to an engine bug, they won't protect the transport against Flak or SAMs all the time anyway.
- The Stealth and Intel targeting mechanics need a major overhaul anyway, so chances are this will all work much better when people get around to doing that.

[JaggedAppliance]

I think it's hard to find top players that don't think harbs are an issue.

Rhinos suck compared to other t2 tanks and their inability to deal with t1 pd is made worse by medusa being the worst arty for killing pd.

[Myxir]

- cybran frigate AA
- extremely low energy/s costs of mobile stealth
- speed differencies of mobile t2 flak units
- beetles counting as t1 units for transports

[Ithilis_Quo]

Keyser in equilibrium is same as you suggest:
harbringer
titan
uef sacu
acu tml
rhino
mercy (it take 3000dmg on 4aoe over 10s = 300dps = about 1000dmg on acu when moving)
czar/atlatis/fateboy build faster
T2 torpedo launcher
(im taking note about sniper bots)

cybran frigate aa
deciver drain more e
flak with hover move slower
beetle is T2 units in transport, and its better against land units

[ZeRen]

HARM - it is too easy to kill it. especially for UEF and SERA(cruisers), my idea to make impossible to ground fire and nerf HP

- beetles counting as t1 units for transports

cybran has worst T2 trasport, you can only load 4 T2 units, so if you make beetle as T2 then you can only load 4 on transport(3 with stealth) , so you need 2 trasports(= easier to spot), and beetles are stupid when they attack just stop and move stop and move

even now it is hard to make beetle snipe, when I see cast or play game almost everytime is com surrounded by units, pds, AA...., I dont think beetle need change, best would be if Tokito (beetle sniper ) said something on this

[PsychoBoB]

The problem of the Rhino is,that its cannon is to low on the ground. Maybe it would just help to make the model bigger. The model is a bit too small anyway for a "heavy tank". (Like the Obsidian btw. Best T2 tank and the size of an aurora...)

[IceDreamer]

The problem of the Rhino is,that its cannon is to low on the ground. Maybe it would just help to make the model bigger. The model is a bit too small anyway for a "heavy tank". (Like the Obsidian btw. Best T2 tank and the size of an aurora...)

This is certainly possible, re-sizing units is extremely simple.

[Turkey]

Wouldn't that make it easier to hit?