Strategy question -- counter Mongoose + shields

[anton]

So, my question is how do counter Mongoose and para shield spam, assuming I keep air contested with large number of T1 fighters? This combo is the reason I started playing UEF lately, and it has not failed me once I have a few T2 factories. Mongoose can cut down huge numbers of T1 units (even though, yes, granted they over kill and are not THE most effective unit vs T1), they can kite anything T2 except for Hoplites, but even then parashields keep Mongoose alive well enough for them to confront the enemy army and march forward to destroy Hoplites, and if enemy pushes for T3 they can cut down their heavy bots before they even have a chance to engage. Only T3 things to worry about are arty and snipers, but even then I generally have enough Mongoose to just march them forward and either chase down snipers/arty or at least cause huge damage to infrastructure. So, how do you counter them? Kind of just curious... and want to know what to watch out for

[nine2]

im interesting in the answer too

[Vee]

You either go for a push and try to catch the mongoose, or go for things that match or exceed their range (gun acu, t2 pd, t3 land). Honestly I don't think mongoose are very good. I can see it working on lower levels where people are very passive and mongoose continuously kill their units, but mongoose are just too weak to stop any push. Mongoose are also very easily dodged.

[buletproof_bob]

stealth and hoplites maybe. t2 bombers?
cant think of anything for aeon. will try it next time i am uef.

[ZeRen]

stealth and hoplites maybe. t2 bombers?
cant think of anything for aeon. will try it next time i am uef.

but hopplite miss almost everything and all of them fire on the same unit, I think mongo is way better then hopplite

if you do that post replay

[ZLO_RD]

ofc range bots are very hard to counter if they are microed properly, you can also micro shields so even OC not does any damage.... so... you can counter with:
t2 pds + gun ACU: by that i mean that ACU can't be everywhere, and same kinda true for t2 pd, but together you can delay and defend efficiently while you get t3, also you may want to get t3 mobile arty pretty fast, cause it is very good against t2 bots (but aeon and uef t3 mobile arty kinda suck)

what i just said is obviosly sound like defencive strategy, but often opponent will just defend every your attack with range bots cause he will have room for kiting, in that case you should try to dodge with your t2 tanks as much as possible and buy time while you eco or tech...

everything is so map dependant that i can't really tell much

I would maybe try to make some run-by attacks or try to swarm my opponent with t1

also keep in mind that for opponent will be hard to controll more than 2 groups of bots simultaneosly, so try to make as many attacks at once as possible, also drops and try to use different kind of tools like mml and TML and t2 pd creep

snipe his t2 power, snipe his TMD and TML t2 power

just before fight try to kill enemy radar

as you see fight you can run in circles with units that are at front, and anyway just with units that are being shot, you can dodge alot by doing it, also may try to pull back damaged units...

also to a simultaneus attack tactic you can attack while air fight is happening...

not much of other ideas

[Lyr]

Depends on the race and the map.

The major drawbacks with this kind of combination is that Mongeese waste damage. Parashields cost 110 energy per tick, so the mass cost of the energy required to support them is not insignificant.

Aeon, you're kinda screwed if you let him build up a meaningful quantity of Mongoose - larger maps, push for Harbs, smaller maps, go for map control with your auroras early and finish the job with range gun & OC. If the map is open he should have a hell of a time holding it before T2. If the map is closed, use the terrain to limit the ability of the 'geese to move. Smaller maps most UEF players will find it difficult to get enough power to support a meaningful amount of parashields. If it's later game and he's stacking a lot of shields, use the Absolver - super cheap and effective versus stacked shields.

Cybran - use Hoplites with Deceivers. If you have air, GG. Season with stealth gun come for good measure. Hoplites with Deceiver is superior to Mongoose with Parashield. Vipers can also help reduce the shield HP and stop any attempts to put up T2PD.

UEF - Reciprocate or out compete him on mass. You can use Pillars to this end, shield them yourself, or you can use your air superioroity to launch t1 bomber attacks on his power. The more he shields, the more power it consumes and the more mass he spends.

Seraphim - Ilshavohs and Fobos. Season with Gun-Com. At T3 you can use your superior T3 mobile shields with Ilshavohs. Illshavohs have something like 4 - 5 times the health of your average 'goose.

It does depend on the map. The turning circle on the Mongoose isn't great if memory serves. You can try and catch him with your tanks. You can bomb his power. You can usually out eco him as well if you have the space as using Mongoose and shields costs a lot of APM.

Also, target his radar.

Perhaps you can tell us which maps or scenarios where you seem to be having the most problems with them?

Pretty much the de facto solution to most tactical problems is spam t1 bombers. Just get a bunch of engys and put them on a t1 air factory and spam bombers. Problem solved.

[Ceneraii]

Just a note on above post, seraphim t3 mobile shields are not superior to parashield (hp/mass ratio is way worse)

[Lyr]

Code: Select all

Health: 150hp (regen rate: 0hp/s, armor type: Normal)
Shield: 3500hp (size: 17, regen rate: 55hp/s, recharge time: 24s, recharge rate: 145hp/s)

Code: Select all

Health: 400hp (regen rate: 0hp/s, armor type: Normal)
Shield: 10000hp (size: 20, regen rate: 133hp/s, recharge time: 45s, recharge rate: 222hp/s)

Looks pretty superior to me.

[Apofenas]

Code: Select all

Health: 150hp (regen rate: 0hp/s, armor type: Normal)
Shield: 3500hp (size: 17, regen rate: 55hp/s, recharge time: 24s, recharge rate: 145hp/s)

Code: Select all

Health: 400hp (regen rate: 0hp/s, armor type: Normal)
Shield: 10000hp (size: 20, regen rate: 133hp/s, recharge time: 45s, recharge rate: 222hp/s)

Looks pretty superior to me.

Seraphim shield provides 18,52 shield HP/mass; UEF shield provides 29,17 shield HP/mass. Sera shield is t3, UEF is t2. Superior you say?


Now about main theme. As aeon or seraphim, you should try to use t2 hover tanks: they are fast, easier to micro and have less penalty for micro fail. Combine them with aeon range gun com and seraphim restoration field(dramatic increace of survivability in this case). If you manage to take out shield, you can get a support from t1 bombers - mongoose is practicly the same paper as auroras.