ASF micro - bullshit or not?

[tatsu]

So me and Rico have been wondering whether ASF micro is worth it, assuming potentially high APM on both counts.

To keep this structured:
1) If both players micro, and one is better (e.g. sharper turns to get behind the other), it is obvious who wins.
2) If both don't micro at all, the outcome is random.
3) Does attack ground vs default attack change anything when fighters aren't microed after an initial attack command?
4) Does attack ground vs default attack change anything when fighters are microed the entire airfight?
5) If one player microes and the other doesn't, who of them should apply attack ground and who should use default attack?
6) Can you outmicro the default attack order and win the airfight?

Please try to give numerical estimates for the impact of air micro. Sandbox videos and replays are appreciated.

Spoiler: show

[Master_Vallex]

chariot and i did some testing back in the day, patrole/attack command with less than ~100 asf gets killed by good micro but still high losses.
every pile above ~130 has usually better outcome when fighting on their own.
and initial commands only makes difference if the fighters dont immediatly engage but stand still for few moments (like after move order).
the rest comes down to asf numbers.
and for TAs video, no, you do not need to set asf to groundfire for a proper fight

[keyser]

things you need to know :
1- afk asf win vs most micro asf
2 - attack move and patrol are bad
3 - you can do the blob then press "stop" when you reach opponent blob. This way you will win with no micro) against 95% of air player.
the only player that know how to micro well air (BH, gala, sc-account) does stack their air with shift g, which allow them to have a better turn after first path. then with good micro they can beat the "stop micro"

this work well from 100 to upper number. Didn't try under.
stop micro works with inte

[Frozen_byte]

I don't micro my ASF's and using Split-Attack (Shift+G) on about 10 Units.
Is this okay? Or is the "Stop before engage" no-micro still better?

[keyser]

I don't micro my ASF's and using Split-Attack (Shift+G) on about 10 Units.
Is this okay? Or is the "Stop before engage" no-micro still better?

as I said i didn't try for low number of asf.
i've done that too, split attack on opponent asf, i called it "freeze micro" since in 100 vs 100, if you target 20ish asf, and then press g, you will get a big freeze.
In lot of occasion it did work well, it allow you to spread well your asf, to make the no micro after more efficient.
It was somehow little more random then "stop before engage", and i didn't try it vs good air player. (it was only Vee).
spread attack may be a good way to micro your asf, atm i will go for "stop before engage" since spread attack creat a big lag, and is a little more random imo.
the spread attack need some more testing.

[Exotic_Retard]

air micro is kinda bullshit.

why?
because you dont know what to expect from it- its impossible to micro 30v30 tanks and get similar results as with asf - its just so much more effective and meaningful than any other kind of micro
because badly microed asf are worse than unmicroed asf - not the case with thanks either


because apm is also a resource:
micro should be a choice - either you spend apm there to increase the effectiveness of that one fight, or you spend it elsewhere to better your eco or other fights.
air micro is so important you dont have a choice - you micro air or you are doing it wrong.
(thats a bad thing, thid game is all about choices - tactical and strategic, not about just clicking everywhere.)

[Col_Walter_Kurtz]

The only time I lose versus ASF that are idle / patrol / attack move is when there is a good number advantage for them OR when I have grouped my ASF too tightly together. In that scenario they seem to get shot from every direction without being able to use the concentrated firepower of "the blob".

I will have to try the "move and stop" method keyser suggested.

[ZLO_RD]

There were 50 vs 50 ASF in my 1rst test/trainig air fight
my opponent only lost 10 or 5
so if you attemt to micro and fail, it can be even worse than if you didn't micro.

i still remeber this funny game that was won kinda by asf micro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKCfN_QPRYQ

[Col_Walter_Kurtz]

There were 50 vs 50 ASF in my 1rst test/trainig air fight
my opponent only lost 10 or 5
so if you attemt to micro and fail, it can be even worse than if you didn't micro.

i still remeber this funny game that was won kinda by asf micro
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKCfN_QPRYQ

Do you have any specific pointers for good micro? How best to react to unmicroed ASF?