What am I doing wrong in Seton ?

[J0sh]

Hi all,

I had a game on which I played beach with uef navy. I had a better eco than my opponent and was still almost unable to counter aeon navy or aeon and uef navy once the aeon guy was nuked.

Was it because of a bad choice of unit or what ?

By the way, many thanks to top seton players. Some games are just amazing !

5720847-J0sh.fafreplay

(417.51 KiB) Downloaded 107 times

[rtc]

just regarding the initial 1v1 navy setup:
looks like your opponent always had more destroyers than you, so he won a few fights and pushed you back.
you also build some coopers (anti submarine boat) even though he just spams destroyers and frigates and nearly no submarines at all - that's just wasted mass. even if your opponent has a few submarines in his navy, destroyers are good enough to take them out.
dont make coopers unless you are up against heavy submarine spam i guess? maybe better micro on shield boat would have helped, too (dont let enemy ships get under the shield and shoot the shield boat, and when the shield is depleted pull it back from the battle so it can recharge outside of enemy firing range)
overall: make more destroyers, make many frigates, dont make coopers

[biass]

(didnt watch the replay)

UEF destroyers won't cut it vs Aeon ones, you want to just make enough so that you can hold out until you start getting Battlecruisers,
from there, cut through his destroyers with a battlecruiser/shield combo (coopers if subs appear, but bc does have some torps) until you either win or he gets battleships, when that happens, make battleships of your own, and kite him to death.

Don't try to send a battlecruiser out on its own, aeon destroyers in groups of over 6 can still mobkill your solo ships, make sure to support them until you gain a good number, UEF jamming frigates will work wonders vs the slower firing Exodus class, so make sure to send some to help

Make T3 sonar early, its cheap (250 power?) and gives you amazing coverage.

UEF cruisers are always good choices if you're winning, a nice mobile intel platform with epic AA and mobile missile fire to boot, spam them if you win navy and want to do early damage from the water.

[PhilipJFry]

You should try to scout more often. Especially the base, the unit composition of your opponent and his factories.
At one point (around min 27 or so) you have some t2 navy trying to fight aeon destros, 2 UEF Battlecruiser and one AEON Battleship. That's just a fight you won't win. In that case it's better to scale up your production (you had almost 3 times the mass income of your opponent) and fight later instead of letting what you do have getting annihilated.
General tip for UEF navy on setons: If you are not commited to beat your opponent with t2 navy get t3 sooner and make Battlecruiser + Bulwarks. Those can wipe out lower tech navy or hoverspam with ease and are cheaper than Summits.

Also be sure to insult your opponent for mixing navy.

[biass]

Also be sure to insult your opponent

[J0sh]

Thanks for your replies. I rewatched the game at the light of your comments :

make more destroyers, make many frigates, dont make coopers

Ok, agree with the 2 first, not sure about coopers as at a point my opponent had 3 or 4 t2 subs, are coopers definitely that bad ?

You should try to scout more often. Especially the base, the unit composition of your opponent and his factories.
At one point (around min 27 or so) you have some t2 navy trying to fight aeon destros, 2 UEF Battlecruiser and one AEON Battleship. That's just a fight you won't win. In that case it's better to scale up your production (you had almost 3 times the mass income of your opponent) and fight later instead of letting what you do have getting annihilated.

Right, I didnt see he had t3 units at the beginning of the fight, then I retreated but I still wanted to protect the middle guy who was still in his front base and with the other ocean lost.

So I didn't make enough frigates, I forgot to upgrade sonar, poor scouting and I built battleships only i/o battlecruisers.

What is the good proportion of bulwarks in the fleet, with and without battlecruisers ?

And how do you scout in early game when sometimes noobs make tons of t1 subs that you can't detect with a spy plane and when you have at least 1 torp to detect them it's too late, your fact. is destroyed, the guy comes with cruisers and you can't defend with torps ?

Upgrading very early sonar to t3 ? And if you are not playing uef ?

Also be sure to insult your opponent for mixing navy.

You played too many games with doggler...

[PhilipJFry]

T1 Airscouts can detect subs and even if you miss them they are just so bad you can easily make torp def and won't lose too many engis anyway.
The correct amount of Bulwarks is as many as possible without stalling power.
If you play seraphim make a t2 sonar close enough to the enemy base to be able to see what's going on.

[J0sh]

What a noob I am doing, was so sure that t1 spy had no sonar that I didn't even checked units description...

[rtc]

Thanks for your replies. I rewatched the game at the light of your comments :

make more destroyers, make many frigates, dont make coopers

Ok, agree with the 2 first, not sure about coopers as at a point my opponent had 3 or 4 t2 subs, are coopers definitely that bad ?

coopers have extremely low HP for the mass they cost - less HP than a T1 frigate, but cost 3 times the mass. they do ok dps with their torpedoes, but they also have less range than destroyers. they have good torpedo defense so they can survive pretty well against submarines, but due to their extreme low hp they die extremely quickly against any navy that isn't just submarines.
coopers are good if your opponent is doing heavy submarine spam, but your problem wasnt some enemy submarines - your problem was mainly the enemy aeon destroyers, and coopers are just garbage against destroyers. you could have built 3 more frigates instead of 1 cooper, which would probably have been more useful against those destroyers.

[biass]

Coopers are considered high tier, just not vs stuff that doesn't need torpedoes in order to die.