Very hard game against a turtle

[Flynn]

I have been playing against this guy since 2013 and I always get frustratingly close to beating him. I nearly did in this game, but somehow he annihilated me.

I always feel like I've got him beaten and then he builds up and smashes me.

It's a four leaf clover game and I tried every trick in the book to beat this guy but he built up a huge number of Januses and wrecked my economy somehow. He puts me under so much stress every time I play him and he drags the game out in such a horrible way.

5572466-Flynn.fafreplay

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[KeyBlue]

This is probably a good replay of how not to handle a fire base?
Good replay for heaven maybe?

You seem to have good ideas, but you do them too late.

• Like you know you need mml vs pd, but first you get some mongoose that do nothing. (don't build mongoose if you can't micro them 24/7)
• You know how tmd works, but don't rush tmd after getting all your t2 mex sniped or better after scouting his tml?
• You get a nice percy drop after having t3 for a long time, when you should drop the first percy that you build. (since 1 percy can't do anything in front of a fire base, but if you drop it, it can have a big impact)

Also remember to use the range of both mml and arty properly. You had both too forward so they died. (btw most t3 arty doesn't fire while moving, so don't micro them too much)

Don't get impatient, just put mml/t3 arty at max range and focus down the pd/shields 1 by 1. Simply put some units in front of them to block incoming units trying to snipe them. (use a (mobile) shield to protect against suicide bombers)


Those are some of the things i thought of while seeing your game. I surely didn't explain all your mistakes, but i'll let other/better players explain it.

Last tip: Think about how he killed your base with t2 air. Why don't you do that yourself? You can do t2 airsnipe before minute 15, instead of minute 40 like he did. So next game when you see t2 pd up again, just get t2 air and kill his power/base. (ignore the pd, since t2 pd can't kill air, so no need to kill it initially)


Hope this has any value, and next time you'll able to beat him.

[biass]

He puts me under so much stress every time I play him

Found the problem

Learn to focus

[Flynn]

This is probably a good replay of how not to handle a fire base?
Good replay for heaven maybe?

You seem to have good ideas, but you do them too late.

• Like you know you need mml vs pd, but first you get some mongoose that do nothing. (don't build mongoose if you can't micro them 24/7)
• You know how tmd works, but don't rush tmd after getting all your t2 mex sniped or better after scouting his tml?
• You get a nice percy drop after having t3 for a long time, when you should drop the first percy that you build. (since 1 percy can't do anything in front of a fire base, but if you drop it, it can have a big impact)

Also remember to use the range of both mml and arty properly. You had both too forward so they died. (btw most t3 arty doesn't fire while moving, so don't micro them too much)

Don't get impatient, just put mml/t3 arty at max range and focus down the pd/shields 1 by 1. Simply put some units in front of them to block incoming units trying to snipe them. (use a (mobile) shield to protect against suicide bombers)


Those are some of the things i thought of while seeing your game. I surely didn't explain all your mistakes, but i'll let other/better players explain it.

Last tip: Think about how he killed your base with t2 air. Why don't you do that yourself? You can do t2 airsnipe before minute 15, instead of minute 40 like he did. So next game when you see t2 pd up again, just get t2 air and kill his power/base. (ignore the pd, since t2 pd can't kill air, so no need to kill it initially)


Hope this has any value, and next time you'll able to beat him.

I do agree with your obs. I realised when I watched the replay myself that T3 arty doesn't fire whilst moving, except for the Serenity cannon of Aeon. It is also true that I got impatient with my artillery and MMLs because it appeared that they weren't doing much so after awhile I moved them forwards.

To me I should have won this game because I had map control but every time I play against this guy I already know how the game is going to go it seems. I start strong and he turtles up, builds point defences, ecos and wins.

I find it very hard to counter turtles due to the amount of fiddly micro required. For instance, building the right mixture of units, really I needed para shields with my T3 arty but they are on tier two and the icon is hard to click on. Yes I am learning hot build but I am not there yet.

I know I was slow to react in this game, the turtle style game play that this guy has seems to slow down my thinking process. This guy is really annoying to play against, he has been my nemesis for four years now!

[TheKoopa]

Turtle = giving up map control as you said

Generally the way to beat an ecowhore with less map control is to ecowhore with more map control, you will have a far greater eco than your opponent in the same amount of gametime.

You should also go for t3 air asap as ASFs will basically grant you free air control and you can use strat bombers to snipe targets

[Flynn]

Turtle = giving up map control as you said

Generally the way to beat an ecowhore with less map control is to ecowhore with more map control, you will have a far greater eco than your opponent in the same amount of gametime.

You should also go for t3 air asap as ASFs will basically grant you free air control and you can use strat bombers to snipe targets

Did I not do exactly that!?

[TheKoopa]

Well it's kinda hard to explain, but the general idea is that you can get everything he has and faster

You should not stop ecoing just because you have map control, that actually gives him a chance to catch up and start raiding you again once he has units

[Gorton]

Problems:

1: You try to push 3-4 t2 pd, a small army and a t2 acu with t1 tanks and your gun acu not once but thrice, failing each time and giving reclaim
2: You see he has t2, and don't go t2 yourself until he has tml 6+ t2 mex.
3: Continuing to spam t1 out of 6+ factories at minute 17, after the third attempt to break a couple of t2 pds.
Most important : You made mongeese. This is only allowed against aurora, or if trolling.

There's more, but these are important to focus on.

Solutions:

Don't try to push such a strong fort with t1 tanks and gun acu. When you see t2, you go t2 yourself, quickly. Build tmd asap around your hq and core mex.
When you see you can't push him, scout and see if he's got mobile forces. If not, you can stop making your t1 tanks. If you like, just leave some factories around so if you absolutely need to you can spam some more t1.

Upgrade some of those factories to t2 and make mml. A group of 10 will break his defence in about a minute.

You had such a stupid mass advantage by the aforementioned minute 17 that if you hadn't been wasting some, you could have 3-4 t3 mex as core. Or a t3 hq with percies ready. Percies > t2 pd, and his later t2 army.


Also, try drops.

Something else is that if you have a fight, if you start it, plan how you're going to benefit from that fight. I.e if you start a fight somewhere, it is usually to take expansions, raid, etc. If you start a fight like that, you should expect to win, or why would you start it ! It's bad to lose those fights, as the reclaim field remains. So, go for wins in fights if you can, get engies going there beforehand. Reclaim reclaim.

[Lieutenant Lich]

Goes back to Erwin Rommel's saying: "Don't fight a battle if you do not gain anything by winning" and Sun Tzu's "Do not attack unless you are certain of victory".

[TheKoopa]

Can you stop spreading your cringe on the forums thx