UEF T2 Navy on Roanoke Abyss

[Valki]

I have mostly played as Aeon but I'm going to give UEF another try. The only area where I really don't know what to do is with T2 navy against an opponent going for subs.

My typical Roanoke game (rating ~770) with Aeon goes like this:
1. Spam frigates - opponent spams subs
2. Use frigates to destroy mexes, possibly buildpower and shipyards
3. Opponent forces retreat with overwhelming subs
4. Retreat to base, build torplaunchers.
5. Build Exodus class destroyers.
6. Sweep up enemy expansions, fleet and main base.

However, UEF destroyers won't be able to destroy submarines, and coopers won't be able to destroy bases.
Can I win with T2 navy against a sub opponent with UEF as with Aeon? - Or should I use torpedo bombers to back up either destroyers or cruisers, or will I simply need a whole new plan for UEF?

[ZLO_RD]

usually my solution to this are torpedo bombers, you don't need many, just a few already good against subs
They cost half the price of normal t2 bomber, they have sonar, they move really fast, so it is hard to kill with t1 interceptors,
they deal about 600 damage per shot, witch is enought for 1-shot kill t1 subs, and kill t2 subs after few passes, if you don't have air controll you often can make 1-2 passes with a bomber and wait untill enemy strat try to catch your bomber and then just fly away, eventually t1 planes will just run out of fuel, that will not hurt opponent too much, but your bomber stil survives so you can use it/suicide it when real battle starts, and also having interceptors with no fuel is also annoying for your opponent

i often build a few t2 torp bombers to deal with frigates that sneak behind my islands, but even torp bombers can't deal with mass cybran frigate spam xD

[Valki]

So, I get a few T2 storks to deal with the subs, and then use either Destroyers or Cruisers to destroy the base.

However, this does mean I need 2 T2 HQ's instead of 1 HQ.
There is no (good) way pure T2 navy can accomplish both dealing with the subs and destroying the base?


Tigershark (subs) instead of Thunderheads (frigates)?
The tigersharks can surface and they have actually more range than frigates, 32 vs. 28, which is important when attacking islands. Dps is somewhat irrelevant when attacking defenseless targets, but 25 vs ~60 is certainly enough to take on a T1 mex. If I open up with T1 subs, then I don't need torpedo bombers, and depending on my AA needs build destroyers or cruisers.

Are tigersharks a viable unit on Roanoke or am I missing something?

[TheKoopa]

If you really don't want to spend the mass/e on a second HQ, then you'll have to mix coopers with the destroyers. Good thing is that coopers are by far the best anti-sub anti-torp units.

[ZLO_RD]

Useing subs instead od frigates sounds great on paper, but in reality it is pretty micro intencive, you need to submerge each time you encounter a frigate or hover tank (in case of aeon), or t1 arty some times tryes to defedn islands too, and if opponent realises how you are trying to use t1 subs, then he can even use t1 bombers to defend

frigates on other hand have more HP, they are cheaper, have better sonar and also have radar and antiair, and more usefull after t1 stage since most faction t2 destroyers are good against submarines

[Mot]

I often find that t1 subs lead to a loss of an oponent. Don't stick around with the friagates, split them up, get t2 air/coopers and get happy about how much more effective your mass investments are. I haven't played uef much but coopers and shield boats should help you out alot. I mean you could go for shields coopers and cruisers if the oponent is stubborn enough to stick to subs, ceptors + storks above your navy get even more devastating then.

[Valki]

Useing subs instead od frigates sounds great on paper, but in reality it is pretty micro intencive, you need to submerge each time you encounter a frigate or hover tank (in case of aeon), or t1 arty some times tryes to defedn islands too, and if opponent realises how you are trying to use t1 subs, then he can even use t1 bombers to defend

frigates on other hand have more HP, they are cheaper, have better sonar and also have radar and antiair, and more usefull after t1 stage since most faction t2 destroyers are good against submarines

Subs becoming useless at T2 is a good point, I will happily go on not building (many) submarines.

However, micro-ing subs to destroy mex would work almost as well with 1 sub (per target) as with sub-spam. I think I'm going to try how well mex-raiding with 2 single tigersharks will work on Roanoke... it doesn't solve my T2 navy vs subs and structures problem but it does sound like fun to do

I often find that t1 subs lead to a loss of an oponent. Don't stick around with the friagates, split them up, get t2 air/coopers and get happy about how much more effective your mass investments are. I haven't played uef much but coopers and shield boats should help you out alot. I mean you could go for shields coopers and cruisers if the oponent is stubborn enough to stick to subs, ceptors + storks above your navy get even more devastating then.

Coopers and shield boats do not destroy land-based structures, for that you need destroyers or cruisers. Frigates don't outrange T1 and T2 pd.
As Aeon I usually need 2 or 3 destroyers to get the job done, and then I usually manage to inflict so much damage to his base that I win. But it seems I will need to spend much more time and mass to destroy the subs and attack the base with UEF as compared to Aeon.

[Lieutenant Lich]

[quote="TheKoopa"]If you really don't want to spend the mass/e on a second HQ, then you'll have to mix coopers with the destroyers. Good thing is that coopers are by far the best anti-sub anti-torp units.[/quote]


That makes one wonder: Why does UEF have 2 units, destroyer and torpedo boat, where other factions have 1? They can live just fine with Valiant-Cooper combo in one and Bulwark. A torpedo boat is vulnerable to both direct fire and to torpedoes.

[biass]

That makes one wonder: Why does UEF have 2 units, destroyer and torpedo boat, where other factions have 1? They can live just fine with Valiant-Cooper combo in one and Bulwark. A torpedo boat is vulnerable to both direct fire and to torpedoes.

other factions have t2 S U B S

[ZLO_RD]

UEF also has shields