Beating UEF turtle

[Valki]

Just had a terrible game against a UEF player on "TAG_Craftious Maximus", replay (long and boring) included.

After I got the upper hand in the early game he began to turtle. I had 50% of the map, he had only his base corner, the rest was unclaimed. I tried a lot of things...

• Frontal attack at T2 stage and T3 stage failed.
• Torrents were shot down with Tac launchers.
• Galactic Colossi were shot down, one got close and caught his ACU outside of shield cover, but he had a personal shield and didn't even walk away when Colossus was still at 50%.
• Tempests were shot down with Tac launchers and Fatboy.
• He had SMD, so didn't bother with Nukes.
• T3 Mobile Arty was shot down by something.

And then it was time for me to take care of the baby and start cooking dinner, so I Ctrl+K'd.


How do I deal with this?

[nine2]

that doesnt sound that boring...

[Benoker]

I saw the same things repeating over and over again:
- you driving some expensive units too close to his base (so they die)
- him sniping expensive units and mexes with tactical missiles

Once the turtle started:
-> place some TMD all over the map, they are cheap, and would have nullified his primary defense
-> use TML yourself? After all he is playing UEF, which is not known for its defences against missiles.
-> don't attack unless you know you can do some damage. Pick the easy targets first. For example why not build some T1 subs and kill of his navy?
-> kill stuff that hurts. For example your 3. (?) collosus nearly killed a T3 power plant - that would have caused a lot more issues for him than a dent in the shield of his ACU
-> try out different unit compositions. He built a lot of Percis and T3 PD, a few (read: at least 100) T1 artilleries together with some shield breakers, and a collosi as distraction might have broken through.
-> and if nothing helps: T3 bomber snipe, the ultimate tool against anyone that has no air force.

[Valki]

@Benoker: Thanks for taking the time to watch the replay and help me out.

I saw the same things repeating over and over again:
- you driving some expensive units too close to his base (so they die)
- him sniping expensive units and mexes with tactical missiles

It took me a while to realize just how powerful and long-ranged those T3 PD are. I haven't encountered them much yet, I will be more careful next time.

Once the turtle started:
-> place some TMD all over the map, they are cheap, and would have nullified his primary defense
-> use TML yourself? After all he is playing UEF, which is not known for its defences against missiles.
-> don't attack unless you know you can do some damage. Pick the easy targets first. For example why not build some T1 subs and kill of his navy?
-> kill stuff that hurts. For example your 3. (?) collosus nearly killed a T3 power plant - that would have caused a lot more issues for him than a dent in the shield of his ACU
-> try out different unit compositions. He built a lot of Percis and T3 PD, a few (read: at least 100) T1 artilleries together with some shield breakers, and a collosi as distraction might have broken through.
-> and if nothing helps: T3 bomber snipe, the ultimate tool against anyone that has no air force.

Good advice, if I am ahead in eco I should indeed be able to do these things.
I'll try it next time.

One more question:

• Can SMD be overwhelmed by 2 or 3 nukes launched simultaneously?

[Deering]

4 simultaneously (targeted at nuke defence). One faction stops 4 by about .5 seconds when placed on the defence. If you place it closer so the defence missile has travel time it still explodes though

[speed2]

Few things Ive noticed:

• When you had chance to kill his navy (before he went T2) with your navy and auroras, you sent only your navy but after it was too late
• you need to counter:
  
  • T2 Pds with mobile missile launchers
  • T3 PDs with T3 mobile arty + as an Aeon you have shields disruptors that just eats shields for a breakfast
  • Then he built T2 static arty and you were trying to break it only with Missile ship, but most of its damage got blocked by TMD, if you get battleship as well, his base would fall, or enough destroyers. Direct fire power can't be stopped by TMD
• With most of the maps taken you were kinda forgeting to eco, but the real thing was you wasnt able to use that mass anyway, building more factories, more engies and more game enders would help, since you had all the mass on the world available.
• Once you reached T3 air you started spamming ASF? You always need to look at what your opponent has. You had everything scouted and good radar coverage and only air units he was building were T1 scouts. And for another 10 minutes you didnt build anything else than ASFs. You know there are strats bombers as well to break through. Or if CZAR falls in his base it will kill half of it with crash damage

I hope it was usefull and better luck next time

[Valki]

@Speed2: Also thank you for helping.

Core of the problem is that I do not often do get to T3, or get over 80 mass income, before the game is over. So I didn't really know what to do with my eco and tech
I saw I was overflowing mass but it was difficult to stop, I'm used to having mass stalls.

Thanks for the advice, though I have

• CZAR:I was under the impression that it is use-impaired (if not useless). I once used it against a turtle, from the sheer volume of SAMs it died almost before reaching the base, and it barely hit a T3 power plant when it crashed, but it did set off a chain reaction of T3 power plants and T3 mass fabs. Even then, it was reclaimed and I got a Fatboy back at me quite quickly.
• Wouldn't the battleship be even more vulnerable than the Tempest? The battleship does not outrange the T2 static artillery, and is just as vulnerable to TML.

ASF were a small oops btw, I forgot I was assisting the air factory.

[speed2]

I actually dont know how you didnt win with that tempest cruiser has TMD that would save it. you can even build normal TMD on water with engies. Like you so should have won that game.

[Valki]

TMD on water??? - Nice.
I think I didn't get enough cruisers in range of the Tempest.

But the basic point that I should have won that game, but ran out of time unable to crack his base, was very frustrating.

[Valki]

Normal battleships have double TMD. Tempest was certainly the wrong choice.

That is good to know, that would definitely have helped.