Torrent class - missle ship

[Ithilis_Quo]

'They are meant to be the best bombardment weapon the Aeon have

yes that is, but that because they has any another unit for that role, then of course that is best . Compare it with 4 cruisers, or with UEF battleship. And you will see how it suck against this units.

What's this 76% nerf he's on about?

in previous path made by Pip, torrent lose 20% dmg and 80% of area dmg, that is 76%
800/1000 = 0,8 -1 => -20% 1,5/5 =0,3-1 => -70% 80x0,3= 24; 100%-24%=76%

[gnatinator]

The Torrent is arguably the most powerful surface bombardment ship in the game. It's currently a bloody amazing unit that wins games.

Don't use it VS other ships; that's not it's role.

[IceDreamer]

I did test it VS equal mass in T2 UEF and Seraphim cruisers. Even manually staggering the fire on the T2 ones, the Torrents were able to overwhelm more TMD and more Shields in LESS time.

That nerf was a while back and was absolutely deserved, Back then, they weren't just the best bombardment weapon in the Aeon arsenal, they were utterly, utterly indefensible. If the Aeon got a couple in range of your base, no matter how well defended, you were dead. That was far, far, FAR too strong.

[Hawkei]

The range is the biggest asset of the Torrent Class. 200 range is quite significant. Have you ever played a game on Flooded Strip Mine? The home bases are so far out of water that no naval bombarment, except for the Torrent Class, can properly reach it. A range difference of 50 units can make the difference between: Being able to engage; Being able to safely engage; Or not being able to engage at all.

Firing range is a huge advantage. It gives you so much more map control. It makes you so much more dangerous. If we compare the area of control for a 150 ranged unit, we have 70700 Square Units. The Torrent controls 125700 Square Units. Essentially, no base mex pgen, or factory can exist within this area of control. No base defense can easily hold out against this unit.

You are also wrong about its anti-naval utility. The missiles can be set to ground fire, and take out engineers, factories, torpeedo launchers, and hit bubble shields. A savy Aeon player can use ground fire and predict the location of a moving target. They can also be made it hit multiple targets rapidly. By changing targets during the firing cycle... To give you a scenario:

If I am playing Beach position vs Rock on Seatons. The Rock player has more resources, and easy access to the Island. Which gives him an additional 5 mexes. He also has a good naval control and any attempt at bombardment would lead to an unfavourable naval engagement. I must take out the island resources, but I cannot afford to engage his fleet... So instead of building Battleships, I build a Torrent. I know that a single missile does 800 damage, and the ship fires 10 missiles, from two racks in one 20 second volley. I also know that a T2 mex has 3000 HP, so to destroy it I need to direct 4 missiles to each mex. I can kill all 5 mexes after the second volley and be sailing home after 30 seconds of firing.

My enemy will not realise that he is under attack until the first missiles start hitting their targets. By which time the 2nd volley is already being fired and my ship heading home soon after. Firing from my maximum range, his fleet will not have sufficient time to intercept my taskforce.

[Ithilis_Quo]

when you fire one volley is hard redirect it on another building. How easier is make it with T2 cruisers. thats 50 isnt any real differences, its maybe 1map from 50 when it can has some reason, and this reason will be between 80 vs 90% destroed bases. And when you say this then somone can tell that torrent action radius start from 25-200 what is only 25diferences betwen 150 and on that 25.
You can easy destroi torrent with air, or with submarines, or with hover units, or navy or with all, its weak units, for price of battleship.
Battleship take more dmg, has more hp, better aiming, TMD dont stop it. Of course that you can fire on ships with ground fire, why not, when another units can too? Maybe beacse you has ridiculus slow projectil and all moveble units move and you miss, that another big diferences betwen torrent and batleship.

with battleship you are many time more flexib, when you can chose battleship or torrent who will choice torrent, and why? Im quite sure that you say, you chose it, or its used and some similar bullshit, but someone would chose try build 100 LAB instead of 70striker and styll say thats similar power...

its uncomporable. Cruisers make that work better, and cruisers come 10-15 minute faster then its how ridiculus diference.

It is exhausting, theme of this path is buff aeon, but no buf has chance to pass because Aeon are simply too op. Neither canceled 76% of the previous nerf, which was not discussed and is clearly completely inadequate still will not want to have changet beacse "we dont want the OP Aeon." They are so OP that none play they...

you will never change nothing beacse all is fine, this is clearly example, I never believe that torrent is for that price, time and weakness better units like is UEF battleship or UEF/sera cruisers, and all around it only speaking why dont change it because it still take some dmg. You are like blind, cant compare only that it has effect or not. Its not so easy, it has more sides like only that it can kill some structures, Of course that can. Especialy in Engymode when you can spamm cruisers faster. Can you imagine nerf monkylord by 76% when he loose 3300dmg per sec? Or Battleship whit would take 500dmg by shot instead of 1000 and in 1range instead of 3. Its same nerf. And it will never be implemented beacse that unit start be SUCK, and thats same with torrent, its come beacse this ship is very rarely build, and not so many player would compare it with how its now and how it was before.

[IceDreamer]

Ithilis, you are wrong, and what you want will NOT happen. Accept it and pipe down.

/Thread

[Plasma_Wolf]

thats 50 isnt any real differences

It is. Especially in combination with it's speed of 3. The only T3 naval combat units that are faster are the UEF Battlecruiser and Aeon Battleship. It's therefore all too easy to defend your Torrent from any naval counterattack. You outrange everything with the exception of the Scathis and T3/T4 stationary artillery. All you have to do get your Torrent(s) in range and wait for the enemy base to be destroyed. If they send units for a counterattack, you retreat the Torrents and let the supporting fleet take care of it.

Your arguments about air units that can take it out is a moot point at this stage because that holds for every fleet that doesn't have an adequate amount of cruisers.

You outrange battleships by fifty and you are faster than battleships. The range is double that of a fatboy (which in turn outranges T3 mobile artillery). You outrange the T2 artillery by 72. Can you imagine the amount of space that is for your own battleships to sit in between, or how much that is for the torrent to be able to retreat while firing? As for the counter attack, the UEF battleships can't ever catch up with Aeon ships, so you may have to face two or perhaps three shots from the UEF, depending on how fast you are in responding to the counter attack.

You can easy destroi torrent with air

1 Torrent vs 4 Strategic bombers, or 5 T3 gunships, or 34 Torpedo bombers. You may lose the torrent, but like I already wrote: cruisers!

or with submarines

Where are your subs?

or with hover units

Where are your hover shields and destroyers/frigates (cruisers have a small gun as well but I don't know how useful those are for the price, still it's some hover defence and loads of air defence in one package)

or navy

Speed. Use it.

Battleship take more dmg, has more hp, better aiming, TMD dont stop it

.
They don't deal more damage, they have less range (which you severely underestimate), their firing Cycle is way worse for taking down shields (with the possible exception being the Cybran one) and anyone who has been under a serious Torrent attack will agree that TMD won't stop that either.

when you can chose battleship or torrent who will choice torrent, and why?

Torrent: when I can choose, I know that I can attack the enemy base: that is what a torrent is for and it does a better job. When I'm not yet ready to attack the enemy base, I cannot choose. That is the thing about the Aeon units, they have specific roles and no unit can take two roles. At some times, you have no choice.

Cruisers make that work better, and cruisers come 10-15 minute faster then its how ridiculus diference.

Cruisers get killed by artillery, or a fatboy if your opponent has it. Torrents are perfectly safe against such attacks

Neither canceled 76% of the previous nerf,

monkylord by 76% when he loose 3300dmg per sec

This is the point I really wanted to stress.
The Torrent has lost 200 damage per missile. That's a 20% reduction. It has also lost 2 splash radius. That's a 40% (or 64% reduction if you want to determine it by surface area instead of radius). Together, it doesn't make a 76% reduction. If you compare this to the Monkeylord, it will keep 3200 dps (20% damage reduction). It has no AoE to lose so let's take away the two secondary guns instead.

Does this make the ML 76% weaker? No, it does not. If you would like to find out: 12 Percivals (IIRC) can kill a Monkeylord. Try this changed ML by sending 3 Percivals on it.

[Ithilis_Quo]

The only T3 naval combat units that are faster are the UEF Battlecruiser and Aeon Battleship.

and sera T3 submarine, and all T2 units, and all air and all hover units, all is significant thread for torrent.

You outrange everything with the exception of the Scathis and T3/T4 stationary artillery

150 is same... Its absoluth same

I could not say nothing you say all:

All you have to do get your Battleship/cruiser(s) in range and wait for the enemy base to be destroyed. If they send units for a counterattack, you retreat the battleship/cruiser and let the supporting fleet take care of it.

doesn't have an adequate amount of cruisers

when you build cruiser for base bombard you has perfect AA when you build torrent for price of 4cruisers then you styll must build another cruiser, so compare 1torrent with 8cruisers... You are real? Or then Admit that its uncomporable.

You outrange battleships by fifty and you are faster than battleships

you are faster by 17% and batleship has 24% more dmg, and 70% more hp. Then you must know that it never hit moving units, becase its missile not projectil...

You outrange the T2 artillery by 72

And? You are real? with cruiser you make it by 22, Its SAME!! it deosnt matter taht you are 1 after range or 8950000595600000 when defence cant fire its same!

the UEF battleships can't ever catch up with Aeon ship

Troll or what... http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 07,XAS0306 0,5 for unarmed units so dangerous for battleship :D some normal argue pls?

so you may have to face two or perhaps three shots from the UEF

And that two or three shots its 18 000-27 000dmg that send torrent near in coral look how romantic it would be http://files.hurghada-trips.webnode.sk/ ... rm%205.jpg

1 Torrent vs 4 Strategic bombers, or 5 T3 gunships, or 34 Torpedo bombers

for why 34, take 20 and you destroi it in first pass. when calcul with cruiser take it on price of torent, cruisers take more dmg and has best AA

Where are your subs?

all my subbs are in depo, becase i dont has mass bacause use all on torrent and cruisers and battleship.

Speed. Use it.

it has low speed :D study shudle

their firing Cycle is way worse for taking down shields

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 06,UES0302 omg... 8000in 20sec 1,5AOE vs 9000 in 20sec 3aoe, same cycle more dmg. torrent has 2hp on tmd defense vs projectil has 1866886461648496416864646465746hp against tmd... You can be absolute sure tahat all who try stop summit by tmd fail!

Torrent: when I can choose, I know that I can attack the enemy base: that is what a torrent is for and it does a better job.

Absoluthlie same how i said.. of course that you say Yes you choise it. It take less dmg on base, shield naval, air, all and has 70%more hp

Cruisers get killed by artillery, or a fatboy if your opponent has it. Torrents are perfectly safe against such attacks

http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 02,UAB2303 ...Troll or just dont know number? 150 is more like fatboy/T2 arty can fire. Its same safa like torrent, taht 50 range doesnt realy matter.

It has also lost 2 splash radius. That's a 40% (or 64% reduction if you want to determine it by surface area instead of radius). Together, it doesn't make a 76% reduction. If you compare this to the Monkeylord, it will keep 3200 dps (20% damage reduction). It has no AoE to lose so let's take away the two secondary guns instead.

again wrong... this is like politician discusion when oponent tell all only not the true, or just dont confirm they information, its preaty easy.. In this post i 3-4 time say how i take 76%! And styll you take me another calculation witha nother number?

5th and again:
1000-200 = 800 -20%, then it lose 3,5 not 2! aoe, 1,5/5=0,3 -70% 100%-20% =80% x0,3 = 24% so torrent has 24% of dmg like it was before. Quite dirrefent like you say, but when all you argue is misleading, then why not here too? when dotn agree with monky we can bring fatboy and take him 0,5aoe from 1,5 and take out 3from4 gauss canon and one from 2 rail gun and it would be same nerf! Its ok, do it fatboy is ridiculous OP nerf him!
calculation for student of humanities 750x4 + 2x500 = 3000+1000=4000dps 4000x0,24=3040 , 0,5/1,5=33% => cca 1000dmg, 750x3= 2250+500=2750cca = 68%nerf instead of 76%nerf torrent. Can you now see it? or still in dusk?

Ithilis, you are wrong,

and where is argue? Where im wrong, all what you say, or futuristick wild dog say is balast, uncertainty, ignorance, stupidity.
I feel here like discuse with trolls. Yes im angry, and umpolite, has very bad feeling from that when take energy for this balance issue what has 0 effect, beacause no-one would take it by the rules of this path, and telling bullshit what i dont see on 9gag in biggest troll teritory.

I apologize for my statements, I dont mean it wrong. good-bey

[Hawkei]

Lets take a commonsense approach here. If I am in a base defence siduation vs an Aeon fleet. Will I be more afraid when I see a group of Battleships or a group of Missile ships? Of course I will be more afraid of the missile ships. My shore based artillery will outrange Battleships and destroyers. So I will simply build a lot of defence. My shields will likely outlast their bombardment.

The Torrent on the other hand would command my respect. I would need to build a lot of TMD and Shields, and hope for the best. I would still be taking fire and still suffering losses. But most importantly I CANNOT RETURN FIRE. I must continually replace my losses and rebuild, or face certain destruction. I am loosing units and rebuilding just to keep my head above water. I cannot retun fire, and my opponent can keep this going in perpetuity.

There was one such game I played yesterday, where I dd manage to hold off the battlefleet with about 15 T2 artillery. I spammed T2 and T3 shields, with a lot of TMD. The only way I could fight back against 6 Torrents arrayed against me was building a T3 Artillery piece further inland. My other alternative would have been to use a nuke. But I think you underestimate the Torrent. It is a devastating weapon system.

[Ato0theJ]

Guys. Just stop with the reasons why the torrent is fine. If someone can't see the massive differnce between 150 and 200, all other logic will fall of deaf ears. The vocal minority doesn't deserve the attention after they have been told time and time again by better players.