Balance team beta patch changelog

[Ze_PilOt]

With the mass difference you can build support factory too (and quite a lot!)

If you can't output the same amount of mass/second than your enemy, it's probably your fault.

[RoundTabler]

This is a great discussion guys, but this balance patch isn't about restorers? Do the vet nerf, but can we stay civil...please.

On a related note, I don't think restorers are too imba. Their only imba/op when in numbers greater than ~20 or 30.

[Ithilis_Quo]

Uber mega OP continental, is OK and not op becase you need one T3 power for 8.75 continental energy upkeep? (that is 3240/8.75 = 370mass by energu => continental cost 1400+370= 1770 mass) When you compare 1770 mass continental with 1200 mass restorer?!?! Its most, most and most versatile units. Of course you can spamm it, you can has 500 continental, and energi upkeep dont change it you only must do another T3 power plant. You has 2time better AA, 2x better speed, you has TRANSPORT for whole army, radius shield... and styl think that resto is op and conti its ok becase cant be spamed.. Thtas logical mistake.

And guys, again, why you are nerfing Aeons, when you say that buff they?

[pip]

A quick post from Japan

The aurora / Obsidian were in the first patch change, coming from nowhere, and obviously without any testing, as the original statement (they have more DPS) is wrong.

I can't allow that from a balance team.

There had to be a reason why auroras butchered all other t1 units in every single game. Since I was not aware that firing tolerance was reduced to zero (or completely forgot it), for me, the sudden strength of the aurora had to come from the only weapon parameter I knew that was changed. I was wrong in the DPS calculation against static targets, but I was not wrong in the sense that aurora "true" DPS against moving targets were tremendously buffed because it didn't miss near as much as before (to see what firing tolerance 0 means, check the new Blaze and count how many shots it lands against moving targets compared to before : it's enlightening).

From this mistake, which is mine and not the team's, came out a very interesting knowledge. Now that I nailed that firing tolerance has much more impact on the power of the unit than small DPS change, I can adjust it, and not change a single DPS, and nobody freaks out... And if auroras are too weak again, I know that we can try firing tolerance 1 : it will be much more meaningful than +3DPS and nobody will jump at my throat.

As for the different opinions about balance in the balance team, that's precisely how it was created : many players have different conceptions and that prevents the balancing to be too radical in a direction or another. We try to make a synthesis between approaches based on different impressions of the game. Not everyone is happy with the choices made, and it would have been handy to have a private place to discuss between us our different points of view and sometimes disagreements,

So please don't blame individual balance team members for having different opinions about balance from the others, it's probably because of that difference that they are in the team in the first place. And since you want public discussion : there it is! But no need for drama yet, what matters is the final patch we will propose. If it satisfies you and most of the community, the balance team was a good idea, if not, it was worth a try.

So don't worry just now, you can continue to work on GW and deliver the kickass reinforcements with the ride of the valkyrias as background music

[IceDreamer]

Yo pip, it seems to me everything is almost ready. Can you give a rough, ballpark ETA for full release?

[Nombringer]

Yo pip, it seems to me everything is almost ready. Can you give a rough, ballpark ETA for full release?

We probably still need some more testing of some of the new changes, such as the monkey lord one.

[pip]

Yes, as Nombringer said, now is a test period to check everything is in order. It will last until the 14th of July, then we'll debrief with the team if there are still some small adjustments required.

For instance, Monkeylord was repeatedly reported useless in engy mod, but with a 2000 mass cheaper cost, fast Monkeylord rush is something some team members fear to be too strong. It's impossible to test that in sandbox, so many games on different maps have to be played. Normally it should be possible to rush Monkey but it should be counterable, especially with snipers and percivals (or air), and if the monkeylord is not backed up by t3 units. After 2 weeks we will see how the situation is.

Meanwhile, everyone is entitled to play the balance testing mod, not only the balance team, so please play with it and report with replays if any interesting things are noticed.

[Ithilis_Quo]

Pip, obsidian need seriusly buff, or lower price. Instead of it you nerf him.

Its hard compare and send replay, becase problem isnt him strongest/weknes but price. And only reason why build him is that aeons hasnt nothing else. Best solution with aeon on T2 phase is skip and try build fast harbirnger. On games what you are playing or in sandbox its hard to see, becase hes buided and strong and you are loking only on him, problem is economical solution.

blaze: +10dps and better aiming is nice, but its not enought, when you compare blaze with pillar, blaze is 11% more expensive. then take all parameter on 89% = 935 hp and 53dps vs 1500hp and 56dps. hoover ability dont hep you on land battle, and you lose 30-35% effectivity vs pillar.. blaze is more versatile units, but that is used in 1:10 games and in that 9 its 30% disadvatage.

[IceDreamer]

I've been playing a bunch of games with my brothers on LAN, and I disagree with Ithilis. The Obsidian is, in my opinion, exactly where it needs to be; it's not so great VS T1 because of the overkill reducing its DPS, but it's incredibly powerful against anything else. It destroys other T2, especially when equipped with mobile shields, is an excellent basebreaker, and unlike the Pillar, Rhino, or even Hoplite, has some pretty good relevance even onto the beginning of the T3 stage, able to dissuade Titans and Loyalists from pushing in too fast against what would otherwise be an easy meal.

Good work guys.

[Ithilis_Quo]

It destroys other T2, especially when equipped with mobile shields, is an excellent basebreaker, and unlike the Pillar, Rhino, or even Hoplite, has some pretty good relevance even onto the beginning of the T3 stage

Nope you has not true, look on zock replay, he wantde try prove that obsis is op, but failed.
Obsis is good against T1. But cheaper sera chicken beat him. He compare 3 obsis vs 18 striker thats
1192,5mss vs 1008 on striker or 900mass rhinos vs 1064striker of course that obsis would be quite better, when cost 200mass more and has lower oponent.

then look on end of replay 5 chicken vs 4 obsis +2shield
1800mas by chicken vs 2248 by obsis, and micred chicken win. 448 mass more dont beat cheaper army, thats not good, thats serious problem what this team ignore, like ignore my, becase they are playing cybran.


when compare obsis with loalaist who cost only 80mass more, thats wery bad statistic for obsis.
Problem is that hes very good tank, then you see him as strong what dont need buf, but hes extremly expensive!