Recommended adjustments

[pip]

I ran thorough tests with the 3626 patch preview, and here are the very few adjustments I recommend to make.

- All t2 naval factories (HQ and support) : 50 buildpower (from 40)
- aeon mobile shields : keep low energy upkeep but health reduced to 3000 hp from 3800
- Obsidian : revert the hp / shield hp ratio to what it was
- Wagner : Cost = 220 mass / 1320 energy / 880 buildtime
Health = 1150 hp ; veterancy = 6/12/18/24/30 ; speed remains 3.7
60 ground DPS = 100 damage main weapon, rate of fire = 0.25; 35 damages *2 for the secondary weapon for 0.5 rate of fire;
5 Torpedo DPS (from 3 DPS, damage = 10 from 6)
- Rhino, Ilshavoh, Riptides, Blazes : target priority fix = targets t3 and t2 units before t1 units or alternatively, targets first t3, then t1, then t2.
- Monkeylord Vet level = 50/100/150/200/250 (instead of 40/80/120/160/200)
- UEF nano : 1200 mass / 44 800 energy / 1400 buildtime; 60 hp regen per sec (or current cost but 100 regen per sec instead of 200; it will then probably be balanced, though I very much doubt anybody will ever choose this upgrade over the t2 suit at that cost)

[ZLO_RD]

Why do you want fix priority of rapid fire units form t1 to t2 and t3? help to deal with t2 bots and give more power to aurora+obsidian mix?

Monkeylord is already weak as shit, i do not think you need to nerf it more =\

have no idea what you did with wagner

[pip]

Why do you want fix priority of rapid fire units form t1 to t2 and t3? help to deal with t2 bots and give more power to aurora+obsidian mix?

Monkeylord is already weak as shit, i do not think you need to nerf it more =\

have no idea what you did with wagner

You think it's normal that when a mantis and a Loyalist attack a Ilshavoh, the Ilshavoh targets the mantis (and worse, it will switch targets if it was first shooting at the Loyalis) ? I don't, this is stupid and needs to be fixed.

The Monkeylord Veterancy used to be 75/150, etc. Reducing it to 50/100 etc is enough, 40 is probably too low. So it's not a nerf, it's an adjustment.

Wagner change is to give Cybran a lighter tank instead of 2 heavy tanks. It has the previous rhino health and DPS but costs like hover tank because of speed (and being amphibioius).

[Nombringer]

A lot of things is completely undecided, you should not post something that has yet to be agreed upon. Use the actual thread for discussion as opposed to making one particular Idea "recommended". Who "recommends" them? They are all up for discussion and some are still under debate.

Call me cynical but... this seems a way to skip posting in the thread and get one set of idea approved. I haven't checked the threads in a while so if everyone has reached a definite conclusion ill take this back However I'm assuming people haven't, and as such, one set of changes should not be highlighted over another

Please don't take offence, but that's really what it looks like

[pip]

I recommend these adjustments based on the current status of 3626, after i took the time to test them. Zep will do whatever he thinks fit. He doesn't intend to change the content of 3626 patch further, these are just adjustments of what has already been included.
There is only one change, it's to make the wagner not the same price and category as the current rhino, if the current rhino remains as it is (and it's fine by me).

- The one who imposed the idea of the rhino is not me, it's Zock. Wagner adjustment is just the second side of the coin.
- The one who imposed the idea of very cheap energy is not me, it's Zep. I merely post a value that would balance this.
- The tweaking of t2 naval year bp is a part of inclusion of engy mod = Zock again.
- The fix for target priorities is not an idea but a fix. Ask Lu_Xun.
- The adjustment of Monkeylord veterancy is fine tuning the change I myself submitted, after I witnessed a Monkeylord vet too fast in a game and to find a proper value.
- And for UEF nano, I ran some tests and submit two alternatives, because the current regen is out of proportion compared to the cost. It has to be modified one way or another before the patch becomes official.

And you're right, these are not for debate, these are technical feedback for a beta process.

[Nombringer]

My point is that numbers are now being pulled from ONE persons testing, for instance the rhino change is still currently being discussed in the thread, and so were the BP numbers fo T2 navy. Yet, some are now being "recommended" over others?

Also I sent you a PM regarding modding, did you get it?

EDIT:I'm not saying that I disagree with the changes (quite the opposite for most of them.) Just the way the actuall numbers are now decided.

[pip]

No, I never recieved any PM.
And, I don't know, maybe the word is not the same as in french, but for me, recommendation = an advice, a counsel. Zep will do as he wants, but I know that he has no time to test, and I took the time to test this morning when i ran some Nomads test as well (because I need to prepare the Nomads to the next patch balance, for your information).

If the rhino is changed or not, that's outside the scope of my recommendations. I didn't find it to be op in my testing so if it remains as is, it's alright for me, if it loses 50 hp, it's fine by me too. But I don't see anything wrong with it at the moment so it doesn't need to be changed, unlike the UEF nano upgrade insane regen for the cheap cost.

[Golol]

the aeon shields are supposed to be far more efficient than other shields because they are the only good thing.
with the energy change they are good but definetly not too strong.
and many people said the pillar will be adjusted according to the rhino and i think that really is necessary.
someone should make some examples how the pillar will be adjusted. he should win in a static flat land battle.
and the wagner should atleast only have 55 dps so its balanced more with aeon and sera amphi tanks.
i still think this rhino is bad. the rhino is the equivalent of the pillar. it should have the same price.
another way to fix rhino wagner balance is to make wagner cost same as riltide and give it 150 hp. rhino gets 40 or 50 hp.
i feel like therr are many ways to solve this problem and current one is most complicated one that will propably cause a lot of balance changes....
the goal is to balance rhino and wagner. not to balance cybran and uef t2 since theyre fine
and at the nano upgrade:
it is not that strong because mostly you need t2 engi
it doesnt give you 6000 hp!
and i barely ever see it.

[Nombringer]

No, I never recieved any PM.
And, I don't know, maybe the word is not the same as in french, but for me, recommendation = an advice, a counsel. Zep will do as he wants, but I know that he has no time to test, and I took the time to test this morning when i ran some Nomads test as well (because I need to prepare the Nomads to the next patch balance, for your information).

If the rhino is changed or not, that's outside the scope of my recommendations. I didn't find it to be op in my testing so if it remains as is, it's alright for me, if it loses 50 hp, it's fine by me too. But I don't see anything wrong with it at the moment so it doesn't need to be changed, unlike the UEF nano upgrade insane regen for the cheap cost.

Ah okay I'll resend the PM. Also no, word is the same.

I think your missing what I'm trying to say Like I said, I like most of the changes in these recommendations.

My point is that this kind of stuff should be posted in the appropriate thread, because if people see these "recommendations" used in the final patch, then everyone will be making threads with there own "recommendations". I know I would. The same way zep was locking threads before with everyone posting what they wanted changed for the balance patch.

I'm not saying that I don't value your testing, but most people here are testing things, and we can't all make threads with the numbers that WE want changed. I'm not trying to de-value your work, and I think it's great that you took the time to do this, but I really don't think these need to be in a seperate thread, it creates problems, and devalues the changes that other people are suggesting.

That being said, I myself like the idea of saving zeps time by actually create a mod of the changes WE personally want. But at the end of the day just say that these changes ARE used. What kind of message does that send?

"Oh I can post the changes I want in the forums and then they are included in the patch" Like I said I agree with the changes, I just think you/we (as a community) need a better way of submitting them.

EDIT: Sorry. it's a bit of a long post over a minor issue but at the end of the day making threads like this devalues the changes people are suggesting in the other ones, and encourages even more threads on the same topic. I mean look... The rhino discussions already started to move here..

[pip]

With all due respect Nom, I don't want this thread to derail into a 18 pages useless thread of opinions. Do you think it's efficient? I don't.

I'm merely posting my technical beta feedback, Zep can do whatever he wants with it according to his own judgement, including doing nothing. You are free to argue about the 3626 changes in the other threads. As for me, I'm done with the endless argumentation, I have better plans for my week end.
Zep can even lock this thread, I don't intend to argue every single change I tested. I just explained Zlo some changes that were not obvious for him.