Obsidians

[dstojkov]

MuzzleChargeDelay 0.1

Quai is right on this. Also for the aurora.

The thing that you forgot to do Zep about the aurora is to divide at least by 2 the TargetCheckInterval. That is why the aurora turn so wierd instead of targeting a new unit it was in idle state waiting for new target and then out of nowhere rotate like they were "high"

obsidian range and AOE make sense only if you remove the hp buff they got. But i still I thing 30 is too much because the range bots were nerfed in comparaison to the 3599. Or if you really want the 30 range then thinking about reduce the hp of the obsidian


I really think the range is the problem for obsidians.

Some will think this is op but it is not this is a buff to counter t2 which are only conterable now with t2 pd
vs t1 this will not make a big difference and the aim is to build a mix of t2 and t1 land force not like other faction can make a "only t2" spam and win t2 heavy tank + range bot

[Ze_PilOt]

MuzzleChargeDelay 0.1

Quai is right on this. Also for the aurora.

It's already fixed. I do my tests without sound or it turn me crazy

[Zock]

I want to suggest some new changes to the obsidian.

First, i don't like to decrease the power cost. 5 is almost nothing, it removes the additional difficulty to balance your power when spamming this unit. I think it should stay at 10, or even 15, if needed with a little cost decrease, to pay out for that power. Or as the current way is, the strong shields will make up for that extra cost. This is no balance issue though, only a design matter.

Second, the obsidian is currently better vs t1 units then pillar, new rhino (who are both very good vs t1), and blaze. I don't think it should be better vs t1 then any of this units, its a t2 killer, no super allrounder. As t2 killer its strange that they lose vs chickenbots, and wouldn't be a good balance for me, but the shields even this area out aswell. So no issue there, only in its power vs t1.

The only solution i see would be to decrease the firerate even more, and increase the dmg per shot. I heared complains they miss too often for that, but i haven't seen them missing often in my tests actually. If they really miss too often, i suppose they need to miss less if their firerate decreases. Or is there any other way to nerf its power vs t1, or increase it vs t2?

Along with this, the blaze need another (big) buff. Its not only useless compared to obsidian, its still useless at all. Without shield, it can't kill its own mass in t1, i think thats ok because the strong shields need weaker units, but also with shield it can't. It need a dmg buff, so it will be worse then rhino/pillar, but better or at least equal to obsidian. What value will depend on how good obsidian will be vs t1. For a start i'd suggest 66 dps and then adjust further.

In tests the blaze also is still not able to kill hoplites, but in real games, it may be different.

So in short:

Obsidian:
energy cost from 5 to 10 or 15
canon from fire cycle: 1 projectile every 4 seconds, 480 damage total to fire cycle: 1 projectile every 6 seconds, 720 damage total
eventually reduce missing

Blaze:
dps from 50 to 66

[ColonelSheppard]

wait you want to make the Auroras (kiting t1) stronger with the argumentation, counter is air, and at the same time you want to weaken the holipes/mongoose, which are currently the counter to the kiting t1 bots, sorry but how exactly do you want me to counter aeon t2 then if:

- my pillars lose against obsidians
- my mongoose get countered by blazes
- my t1 air get countered by t2 swiftwinds
?

i guess like this: send pillars with your mongoose so they can hold of blaze for you while mongoose are kiting.
Well maybe you can combine and micro at that level Zock, but i cant and i tell you many cant too.

ZeP complains that he is not able to micro his auroras, so thats the reason to make everything else micro harder too??

[Zock]

- my pillars lose against obsidians
- my mongoose get countered by blazes
- my t1 air get countered by t2 swiftwinds
?

Obsidians lose vs mongoose
blaze lose vs pillar
t2 swiftwinds get countered by t3 air

Better question is what aeon is supposed to do vs rangebots. And if you did read my post, blaze still lose against them. And will still lose with more dps. I dunno how anything get harder to micro by increase blaze dps. Try to imagine that playing UEF should not imply to have a free stomp on aeon.

[Golol]

Second, the obsidian is currently better vs t1 units then pillar, new rhino (who are both very good vs t1), and blaze. I don't think it should be better vs t1 then any of this units, its a t2 killer, no super allrounder. As t2 killer its strange that they lose vs chickenbots, and wouldn't be a good balance for me, but the shields even this area out aswell. So no issue there, only in its power vs t1.

what excactly did you test?
my test were:
5 obsis vs 36 strikers (static)
8 strikers survived
5 obsis vs 36 strikers (focus firing strikers that didnt really work out, slight micro of obsidians)
9 strikers survived (propably more is possible
5 pillars vs 20 strikers (static)
4 strikers survived

just by maths this means that the obsidians were more effective but:
-the obsidians get a big advantage from static battles (when single tanks run in at the tip etc. they are massively overkilled)
-with slight micro the pillars would have overkilled much less (often 3 shots were hitting a striker with ~20 hp)
-pillars could possibly kite the strikers for a short time giving them more advantage

also, if the obsidians get 720 dmg per shot then in pillars vs obsidians the pillars would have 2160 health and propably win. expecially because the pillars can focus fire and the obsidians cant. if you focus fire with obsis how they are now, they will propably do very bad, and with the change even worse. i am obviously not sure about this because i couldnt test it.
EDIT: i just tested the changed rhinos against t1 and as long as they dont have big area disadvantage they abslutely own it.
5 rhinos vs 30 strikers (static)
3 rhinos survived (doesnt count much because they were all damaged etc.)

[Zock]

3 Obsis vs 19 Striker with both atackmove > 1 Obsidian left

5 Pillar vs 18 Striker with both atackmove > 1 Pillar left

also, if the obsidians get 720 dmg per shot then in pillars vs obsidians the pillars would have 2160 health and propably win. expecially because the pillars can focus fire and the obsidians cant. if you focus fire with obsis how they are now, they will propably do very bad, and with the change even worse. i am obviously not sure about this because i couldnt test it.

Yes, maybe. Has to be seen. The value need to be adjusted most likley.

[Golol]

i dont do attackmove. i just let one side move in in formation close enough so everyone can shoot at everyone else.
hmm do you have the replay?
this is mine
and the striker focus fire vs obsisi dint really work out as good as it could so strikers barely won better than before.
and i also realized that strikers vs pillars is pretty good for the strikers because the pillars overkill quite a lot considering their low dmg per shot
EDIT: i meant strikers. corrected that.

[Zock]

here

[Golol]

ok i just watched it and it is really surprising.
but as you see it seems like the outcome depends on the situation.
what i really fisn surprising is how the ishies owned the obsis with shields.
the problem is that because of overkill ishies have more hp than obsis (2880)
i think there might be a solution to both of these problems, but im really not sure.
it would be making the dmg per shot 500.
here are comparisons:
480 damage per shot; 4 sec reload
pillars: 1920 hp (4hit; 16 secs)
new rhinos: 1920 hp (4hit; 16 secs)
chickenbot: 2880 hp (6hit; 24 secs)
720 dmg per shot; 6 sec reload
pillars: 2160 hp (3hit; 18 secs)
new rhinos: 2160 hp (3hit, 18 secs)
chickenbots: 2880 hp (4hit; 24 secs)
500 dmg per shot; 4.16666 sec reload
pillars: 1500 hp (3hit; 12.5 secs)
new rhinos: 2000 hp (4hit; 16.6666 secs)
chickenbots: 2500 hp (5hit; 20.83333 secs)

with low rof it is very hard to slightly buff or slightly nerf the osidian.
just the tiny change of 20 damage per shot makes it able to propably rape pillars, rhinos and chickenbots. (pillars and rhinos just harder than now).
the 720 dmg would simply nerf it against t2 and make it completly useless against t1.
i think the obsidian cant take any more significant rate of fire decreases since it really suffers from overkill in not testing but real game situations.
well make your own opinion from that stuff.