SorianAI blind on some markered maps. Why's the grid off?

[Zsombi]

Why does SorianAI not recognize faAI markers & nodes when while looking at it in the (hazard) Marker Editor they are clearly there (albeit quite off the map area, eg. Adaptive SandBox)? I have noticed this behavior on some other maps as well. How to fix this blindness?

Another somewhat related question: why are markers shown shifted off the map area in the Marker editor? For example this is Winter Duel, but it's the same with all vanilla and many custom maps as well. Why does this happen, and how can I place and if necessary re-scale them back on the map area?

[AwarE]

Hi,

Sorian AI is very clever if given a full set of FA Markers. Map Makers don't seem to realize that the AI follows Amphibious marker chains, builds Experimentals at 'Rally' markers and needs 'Naval Area' markers or it will not build shipyards.

Adaptive Maps will always produce a weak AI. It is not possible for the AI to start efficently if you Add/Remove resorces without changing the movement markers. It is pot-luck to get a good AI build ....sometime the AI will do nothing.

Many maps have some FA Markers, so the AI does not complain, but there is not a full set. Unfortunatelly the main set missing are the critical Amphibious markers, that should also be linked together.

To get a good AI build on most maps:
- Use Aeon Sorian Turtle AIx
- Ensure you have Omni ON
- Try to set the AI in a start position so that it has a base(another start position) to expand onto. The expansion base should be between the AI start and your start position. Leaving a near, infront start position Vacant will give the AI strenght.
- Restrict the Paragon ...it is a bomb in the AI base. In fact the AI rarely gets it fully built, so it is a waste of resources.
- The AI prefers a 20x10 or 20x20 map ...any bigger and you will max out your CPU.
- It is fun to play with a friend 2x4, against 4 good AIx, one from each faction, although you will both need CPUs doing 4GHz+

Try my TeamPlay_AI maps ...search 'teamplay' in the vault.
roj

[AwarE]

Refering to you 2nd question about the grid.

The grid is ON in FAF.
Maps that show a misalignment with mex markers are produced by placing markers without "snap to grid" enabled in the map editor used.
The marker editor snaps to grid by default ...just click on any marker and it will move if it is not correctly aligned with the grid.
The marker editor can not correct faulty elevation errors with already placed markers ...this is when a mass deposit hangs in mid air above the mex or when it disappears below ground ....in this case it is best to delete the marker and replace it with a new one.

roj

[svenni_badbwoi]

hey guys,
I'm the one responsible for "Adaptive Sand Box" and I noticed it myself.
The AI overbuilds navy and - especially in the mid - the land units seem to have trouble finding the way to the enemy. Most of the time it moves the units into the center plateau where the hill is - no way forward -, then it walks them back to "right" route around the plateau, which leads to units bumping into each other and getting stuck + the land units go to mid to make a turn to attack untis that are coming from the side expansion (never make it to enemy base) + sometimes they just stand around or stay in base.

Thats how the marker are currently placed in the middle (only land and amphibious (same as water) are displayed):

image.jpg (629.96 KiB) Viewed 3514 times

I like to improve that, so here are my questions:
1) How does the pathnodes work exactly ? Does the units orientate on the marker itself and then follow the line to the next marker (mb i made to few marker where lines cross), or does the line suffice to orientate?
2)"Naval Link" is used to mark water-land transition, right? But why is it needed because amphibious pathnodes already show the way?
3) Should I put "large or small expansion base" in mid and or expansion?

About the Grid, I learned it the hard way, after I already placed half of the maps with deeper elevated trees and all where flying in game XD

@AwarE: I watched your marker video and finally learned how to use amphibious pathnodes - thx for that.

[Sprouto]

Hi Svenni

I can give you some detailed answers on how the AI uses the path nodes (both for Vanilla, Sorian and LOUD).

When moving from point to point, you are correct, a platoon will orient on the destination point from it's current position. It does NOT follow the line but instead, depending on general direction - it will 'cut' corners - unless the angle is some multiple of 45 degrees. This often results in units bumping up against terrain features.

The 'Naval Link' marker is NOT used by the AI for anything, except in LOUD where Naval platoons will consider them as points from which to bombard land targets. As you surmised, the Amphibious nodes cover transitions between Land and Water layers.

The Large and Small expansion markers are used differently by each AI variant - but without getting too detailed, they are effectively the same in operation - the only difference being the size of the base the AI may construct - this is likewise true about Defensive Points.

Just one word of caution.

Because both Vanilla and Sorian insist upon moving their platoons precisely to the markers, you should NEVER place movement markers directly upon resources or base markers. In many cases, any platoon moving to such a node will get confused when they cannot get directly to a movement marker. When placing movement markers, be generous in allowing 'wiggle' space for this. If a platoon needs to move to a marker, it has code that will allow it navigate a fairly substantial distance to do that without needing a marker. This is especially true of mass and hydrocarbons.

[svenni_badbwoi]

Hey Sprouto, thx for the information, I will consider it.
You know a lot about AI, where you involved in LOUD? I can tell you that the normal AI and the Sorian one are from the same person

[Sprouto]

Yes, I am the primary developer for LOUD, so I can bore a whole room when I need to talk about the AI.

[svenni_badbwoi]

@Zsombie: Adaptive Sand Box v4 is up. I improved AI pathfinding. If you are still not satisfied, try to keep spot 9 & 10 empty and/or disable "AI Naval Expansion Limit"