MMM (Mad-Mozart Maps)

[Farmsletje]

I left some patches of buildable terrain there specifically for sneaky tml behind your base cancer.

gl making transports able to reliably drop there kappa

[Mad`Mozart]

I left some patches of buildable terrain there specifically for sneaky tml behind your base cancer.

gl making transports able to reliably drop there kappa

Lul, ok, now thats what i didnt think about.
But

How would I know that? Because they look it. There is hardly any buildable area there, at most for terrain. And it's not like you can't get buildable area of the size of a tml footprint also on terrain that is merely decorative. So having that little area as to only allow for super small footprint buildings qualifies for decorative only for me.

Its not a random tiny area the size of tml footprint that you can find literally on every map on a supposedly unreachable terrain. Was taking about those small ledges that look flatter that the rest of the mountain and that slopey piece in the corner. Hope trans will be able to drop there, if not f*** it im not changing that.

In any case, pls stop talking about the mountains already. Im welcome to critics but this started to look like you know better than me what you're talking about. And its starting to annoy me. I get it that you didnt like the mountains but its my map and im doing the hell i want with it.

[Lionhardt]

Err... you brought that up last...

Also, chill your pants.

[Morax]

There is a difference between graphics and aesthetics... Those are not the same thing at all.

The level of precision you can get with CD projekt Red's "Red Engine" verse supp comm engine is far greater. You simply cannot manipulate the terrain, even with world machine, enough to get so-called "aesthetics."

I tried to get it as best I can with a couple of my maps and no matter how much I tried there were always some jagged points out stuff that was too smooth here and there.

You're kidding yourself if you think an engine like Witcher 3s cannot do everything and anything better. Find me an example of "aesthetics" in a supp comm map that you think can come even close to a modern game engine that also does not compromise gameplay.

Mozart is just doing that: making something that looks nice although it may not be super-realistic.

[Lionhardt]

Morax, you seem to have a wrong understanding of what aesthetics means. Consider Warcraft 3. it has shit graphics but amazing aesthetics. or consider the ice map with custom resources that you have a picture of in the start post of your mapping thread. it too has great aesthetics.

[Morax]

I know what it is. I am saying that any and all maps, even the ice one in my thread, looks extremely sub par to me. Don't get me wrong, for supp comm it's really something... But eh I can't say my mind enjoys playing anything for looks. Rks explosions are about the only thing I find interesting that compare to other games.

Mozart should continue working what he is doing and I have faith he will produce something that is far better than the average map FaF sees uploaded.

Nothing in this game will ever look aesthetically pleasing to me again so critiquing it to this level seems silly to me.

I ask again, do you or Biass have a map that really "wows" you where there are real, technical learning that Mozart or myself could be used?

[biass]

Yes, im aware this is semi offtopic but how can i offer feedback if im just going to be met with "uh its not done yet", isn't that the best time to get feedback rather then when it's already finished?

@morax Are you actually looking to learn something or do you just want some neato setting that'll make your maps look better? Because there is none.
My advice, stop whoring out world-machine and learn to use your creative eye properly, make something pretty just using the stock brushes, and see what you come up with.
Here is what i came up with, neither map uses worldmachine here:




I always thought it, but that ice map in your op looks like garbage, it's like a really beat down car with a set of $1000 dollar rims on it, sure the textures are higher res, but literally nothing else rises to the proper standard to reach it. So the whole thing looks uncanny and off-putting.

[Lionhardt]

Nothing in this game will ever look aesthetically pleasing to me again so critiquing it to this level seems silly to me.

See, you are mixing up concepts, as I suspected. What you are saying is like saying the Matrix movies look shit now because the CGI is outdated. That is true, but you are not talking about the aesthetics there. Aesthetics is about design, not the fidelity of the presentation. Following your logic you would not care if the aesthetics in the Matrix movies suddenly changed and became really bad design, because you know, the CGI is outdated anyway. Like... wut?? Do you see how that would be a ridiculous statement?

@bias, nice designs! Great aesthetics

There is nothing wrong about whoring WM though, as long as they understand that whoring WM does not make a good looking map alone. Thinking of it... Morax, why do you even care about getting good at mapping and WM if you don't care about good looking maps, as the game is outdated? ... Serious question. I don't get it.

[Morax]

There are several reasons why I am making maps regardless of this mentality:

1) First and foremost we are severely lacking in the mapping department where there are only a handful of us available. Without new challenges things get boring fairly quick. Even to this day Regor VI has so many options for starting builds, gameplay that it's exciting. Who has created a great 1v1 map like this after Regor?

2) The quality of maps in the vault are extremely poor, often incomplete, and just downright ugly. I'm not impressed by the workmanship at all and want to show better can be done.

3) Ozonex has an amazing work ethic, and his creation of an entirely new editor warrants attention. I would feel terrible not using and supporting that given his effort. What's best is he is open to feedback unlike many other people.

4) It's fun and interesting to me in other means than visuals. Like puzzles and engineering problems I see mapping as a nice, critical-thinking activity.

5) Photoshop skill improvement: along learning how to use the tool for my own personal art projects I have picked up some skills while manipulating height maps that have applications in other work. There are tons of tutorials on the web and often I see something I like to learn while I'm finding something new.

6) I get to and watch other people play the map with other people after it's done!

7) Coding is something I'm not well versed in yet so it's the best medium to contribute to the FaF project. In time I hope to work with other portions. Until I've brought myself up to speed with coding that won't happen, though.

Sorry Mozie for such an off topic response but I hope I inspired you in some way.

Also, Lion, go look at images of "Metroid prime" where the detail is extremely gorgeous even to this day. The lighting and resolution is dated but the "aesthetics" are incredible for a game of its age. I know what they are...

[Lionhardt]

lol, okay fine. I find your position kinda schizophrenic