Monkey lord cost reduction.

[brn4meplz]

Monkey lords died to T3 bots before too. I see no need to make experimental units their own army. They used to be a no brainier rush unit and it was pretty stupid. I don't think construction of any experimental should be taken lightly.

[Wakke]

No one mentioned increasing their laser dps. Might be worth considering.

[Plasma_Wolf]

The reality is, a spider will not penetrate a properly defended base, especially if there is a fraction of the mass in t3 there defending.

A GC won't penetrate a properly defended base, an Ythota won't penetrate a properly defended base, the megalith won't penetrate a properly defended base and also the fatboy won't penetrate a properly defended base. The same goes for any air experimental. When, however, you put even a small number of other weapons with it (A couple of T3 bombers or a bunch of T3 land units, or artillery etc.), you'll get a proper result. WHY HAVE I NEVER SEEN THIS?

The monkeylord:

- costs as much as 16.4 bricks
- has the same DPS as 11.2 bricks
- has the same HP as 5 bricks
- has lower range than a brick (30 vs 35)
- is faster than a brick (2.5 vs 2) but slower turn rate (25 vs 60)
- has the build time of 3.3 bricks (!!!)

Clearly, mass-for-mass, the monkeylord is totally useless.

Ythota: 19 bricks. DPS of 10, HP of 7.44, It does outrange, but has a minimum range (not just one weapon, but the unit design is so ridiculous that it can't properly use itself whenever someting gets up close), Speed is 2.5 vs 2,, turn rate is 40 vs 60. Build time is 3.9x brick.
GC: 21 Bricks. 6.67, but it has tractor beams, HP of 11.1. It outranges by 5. Speed is 2.5 vs 2 and turn rate is 20 vs 60. Build time is 4.3x brick.

All in all, the experimentals win in build time but severely lose in mass cost. It has always been the case. If you lower the cost of the the ML by 2000 mass, the ML will cost less than 15 bricks.

Also, Jeeves, have you even considered the possibility of kiting bricks and percivals when you increase the speed to 3 and the range of the main weapon to 37? What you have then is a gigantic mutated steathed hoplite that even won't be targeted when it actually is discovered.

As for the ML/omni thing: 5 T3 engineers require 3:30 to build a ML, and together they drain for about 1250 of energy. An omni sensor drains 2000 energy for the rest of the game, 1500 if you put 4 T1 Pgens next to it, still more. In that prospect, it is harder to have an omni sensor, although you should be able to have one when the ML is in the game. However, an omni sensor in a secure place (IE your own base) will never be able to cover the whole map, just where the ML is at its best (And definetely so because of its stealth).

[Cantor]

Yes, I already said the other experimentals have the same problem, but in case of the monkeylord it is particularly ridiculous. The chicken has great AoE, the GC the magnets, and they have better health, and massively better range (the chicken has range 45, GC 40 vs monkeylord 30), and better turn rate for almost the same price.

Your comparison to omni by purely comparing energy and then claiming it is harder to get than a monkeylord is weird. For about half the price of a monkeylord you can surround your omni sensor not with t1 pgens but t3 pgens.

[RK4000]

I'm still for just reducing the mass cost by 2000 or something, that seems like a decent buff to make it at least a fraction as mass efficient as the other exp's.

Sure, in 3599 it was overpowered as hell, nobody can deny that. But in FAF, it's underpowered because of it's cost.

The point of it was that you could get it up quickly if your oponent was too stupid to scout for it. It was basically a punishment for people not scouting properly. Because EVEN in 3599, it could be countered mass efficiently by T3.

Right now though, that's impossible to do. The other Exp's are so close to the cost of the monkeylord that if both sides start building their main land exp, by the time the ML reaches the other guy's base, the other, more cost efficient exp, will be finished and r/\pe the ML's exhaust(s).

I think just lowering the cost SLIGHTLY (as said above, 2000 seems perfect) would be OK.

[JeeVeS]

Also, Jeeves, have you even considered the possibility of kiting bricks and percivals when you increase the speed to 3 and the range of the main weapon to 37? What you have then is a gigantic mutated steathed hoplite that even won't be targeted when it actually is discovered

I agree that this is a radical change. I only proposed this because of the fanatical opposition to my first, completely rational request. These changes are a conglomeration of what the majority of people suggested in PM; I would much rather just reduce the mass cost by 2000 then try to make ML into an endgame unit.

the other experimentals have the same problem, but in case of the monkeylord it is particularly ridiculous

This is really the point. We are fixing an obvious imbalance; it won't have major ramifications. I guess we will have to push for -2000 mass cost and hope that 60% of the voters have some basic level of perceptivity.

[Taffy]

I think comparing the monkeylord to other experimental's is not a good idea. Its as said by pilot not meant to take on fire bases. Its great for running through most spam and generally causing havoc. Its still often the 1st exp on the field and can be great for going for a quick snipe. Yes if it is spotted it can be counted easily and you have all said that a good player will scout and see it....but if the person is up against another good player they will try and prevent you from seeing the monkey. I've got a few replays where a monkey has gone unnoticed and sniped a com. I also remember the gpgnet days when monkeys were so difficult to counter and often the game was decided by who built the first monkey. Lets not forget that cybran has a megalith for late game if you want a more powerful exp or even a soul ripper.

[rxnnxs]

Many people forget one think about the ML. And they send him in a base waiting for the LASER to do the work.
But the Lord can dance and has 6 legs... and that is more ground shaking than his microwave accelerator.
also that laser is pretty buggy, is shooting in the ground and such... somethimes the monkeylord forgets to switch his cannon off...
so if you want to use a ML with all his might, let him go for a walk over enemy installments.
just keep that in mind when you make him even more faster

[Quarian]

The cost reduction proposed seems reasonable. Increased energy consumption for stealth could offset an early rush, and reduced mass from reclaim would also make counter-attacks less severe. All in all, count me in favor.

[ZLO_RD]

Buff ML little bit... because it feels like ML is very weak