Soulreaper veterancy nerf & HARMS hp nerf.

[Taffy]

I've not noticed a dramatic problem with the soulripper in game. It does get vet fast but thats only if you allow it to blow up all your engineers and I have never felt it was OP. I don't know much about harms so will leave this bit unotouched.

[CocoaMoko]

If the HARMS didn't have so much HP, I wouldn't resort to [cheap] ground attack tactics with anything with AoE. It seriously outclasses every naval unit (without resorting to ground attack). If it gets a HP nerf, it should be submerged a bit deeper so it doesn't get damaged by Sera T1 arty, battleships, etc. firing at the surface of the water just above them.

I agree as well. We usually do have to resort to ground attacking them, which feels cheap but is totally necessary. Nerf the HP a ton and make them impossible to ground fire with most weapons.

Probably the biggest thing that makes them imba right now though is that when they're being built, it looks as if they're being built on top of the water, but surface weapons can't hit them. So you can have a mess of battleships, battlecruisers, cruisers, etc all around a few submerged SCUs, and they just spam HARMS that cannot be touched while they're being built, that then proceed to rape everything around. And once HARMS are up, there is really almost no point in attacking it unless the enemy naval is already dead and you don't need your ships anymore. No single boat can counter them, and yes torp bombers can technically hit them without being hit, but they die easily to ASF or cruisers, whether you have air sup or not.

[Rediska]

HARMS is like T3 PD for UEF.
I played huge number of games for cybran navy and can seriously say, that if you didn't can defeat your enemy before his strong t3 (whatever he is aeonn or uef or sera) you are in big trouble. If you are not in enemy base in 25 min on Seton's probably you will lose. Because cybran have nothing to counter t3 of any other faction. Harms is a solution.

But if there will be nerf they must be sat deeper for avoiding ground fire from battleships like ppl said.

[ZLO_RD]

agree for small nerf Soulreaper..
not agree about harms, cybran have nothing else in late navy

[Quarian]

Both seem fine. Harms is an immobile turret with no air defense, and SRs are pretty much mass donations if sent into a base with decent SAM or air cover.

[Lu_Xun_17]

In terms of numbers i would suggest :

=> Harms hp decrease from 11000 to 8000 (believe it will still be a really strong weapon )

=> Soul Reaper Vet nerf :

from : 40-80-120-160-200

to : 60-120-180-240-300

[CocoaMoko]

HARMS is like T3 PD for UEF.
I played huge number of games for cybran navy and can seriously say, that if you didn't can defeat your enemy before his strong t3 (whatever he is aeonn or uef or sera) you are in big trouble. If you are not in enemy base in 25 min on Seton's probably you will lose. Because cybran have nothing to counter t3 of any other faction. Harms is a solution.

But if there will be nerf they must be sat deeper for avoiding ground fire from battleships like ppl said.

Difference is T3 PD can be hit by MML, TML, mobile arty, other T3 pd, bombers. HARMS can be hit by...torps.
HARMS have 11000hp, T3 pd has 7500hp. There are a slew of things that can hit the T3 PD, bombers can do ~3000 damage to it each, TMLs 6000, mobile arty ~450-800 damage. Torps do <400 each pass from torp bombers, uef coopers do 320 damage each salvo for ~96 dps total.

And, the counters to T3 PD that I mentioned can all hit the T3 pd without being hit back (except countering t3 pd with t3 pd of course). There is no ship that can hit HARMS with it's torps without getting hit (and raped) itself. Torps can hit it without taking punishment from it, but it will take 30 passes. Or one pass for 30 torp bombers. And there's a safe bet there will be either cruisers or ASF on the other side of the pass.

It's just ridiculous that it has so much health and can be hit by one type of weapon. And once there is more than a couple of them in place the only way to kill them is either to suppress enemy air so much that they can't kill your torps (meanwhile they can still build all the navy they'd like behind enemy lines) or to use cheap ground fire tactics.

This wouldn't be so much of a problem if it wasn't easy to spam HARMs in the MIDDLE of a battlefield. You can check out the attached phantom game for late game example of this. VIP is able to spam a ton of a HARMS under water without anything touching them while they're being built. Atlantis get owned by them and don't even do enough damage to stop them while they're building.

Just make HARMS target-able by surface weapons while it's being built. I could have sworn it was like that before. It appears on the surface while it's being built, it should be able to be shot by surface weapons for being built. Yes, players should still be rewarded for their investment if they're already built for defense. But being able to spam them in an active battlefield is ludicrous! LUDICROUS I say!

If that's not an option, I would suggest cutting it's HP in half. Like I said, no ship can attack it without being hit (and usually killed) by it as well. Most ship torps just don't do enough damage to justify it's HP if it can't be hit with anything else. It would still do a ton of damage and a mass of them would destroy a bunch of ships. It's kinda like how if you try to overrun a bunch of exposed t3 PD with a bunch of units you can end up killing the PD but you'll lose a bunch of units. If you try to overrun a handful of exposed HARMS you will lose probably all your units and maybe not even kill a single one lol.

[Rediska]

Difference is T3 PD can be hit by MML, TML, mobile arty, other T3 pd, bombers. HARMS can be hit by...torps.

If you dont know, even Sera or UEF cruisers can hit HARMS with missile by ground fire. (WOW! they have damage radius too!)
+Battleships with direct ground fire +strats

[Ze_PilOt]

And torpedo bombers. And Bombers in ground fire too.

[Pathogenic]

I enjoy killing HARMs with T2 UEF cruisers, it annoys Cybran players who think they are immune to my navy because they put up a few as defense