Make T1 artillery deployables

[sjoOof]

What about giving the artillery a recoil effect? Make it stop for a short time after fireing instead of having to stop before. That will give the feel of artillery, and slow down the movement a bit. A slight range increase can make artillery drops just as effective.

[ColonelSheppard]

why exactly do you think artys have to be nerfed?? I could give you dozens of replays where i build only like 3 artys over the whole game (to kill a lonely PD or something)

most people lose because they build too much artys

[MushrooMars]

While I do think T1 Arty are a bit too good for some factions, especially when dropped in behind enemy lines, the solution isn't to make them camping-machines. What often breaks the stalemate in maps with choke points (Isis, Setons, I'm looking at you) is sweeping advances using T1 Artillery to break emplacements. T2 MML simply doesn't do the job, and by the time T3 Arty is doing significant amounts of damage, Ravagers and whatnot will be on the field. Taking that away would turn every map with a choke point into a match of Thermo with air.

[Crayfish]

If the problem is overall cost-effectiveness, wouldn't it make more sense to increase their costs or reduce their effectiveness(dps)?
Also, I would not like to see this change.

Personally I think cost effectivness is the main problem but there are others. Bisically at the moment they arent really artillery. They are mobile suicide morters that are so good at their job 75% of players are picking phim if its a water map. If you just increase their cost and/or reduce their dmg you run the risk of either making no effective change or making the unit redundant. This proposal is an attempt to redefine the unit along the lines of its name sake.

Totally agree with Gyle.
Also, people saying that this will nerf arty drop thereby limiting the scope of the game, that is totaly stupid. Arty drops limit the game because they are the ONLY drops u ever see now, even right into the T3 stage, because they are so OP in terms of cost for DPS and ease of use (super cost effective suicide mortars as someone else put it). If arty were nerfed you would see more types of OTHER types of drops, like T2 and Firebeetles (and other units that never get used) if u need to do high DPS over several targets.

[Samark]

Completely agree that changing T1 arty will alter the game a fair bit, and also agree that it urgently needs to happen.

True story -a friend of mine tried to pay SupCom a few times. He wanted to see the full range of high level units etc while playing online, but gave up after being swamped by relentless t1 arty spam in the first five mins of every game. He kept asking why such a blatantly OP unit wasn't nerfed, and why this tactic wasn't considered an exploit. The fact that the first section of the game consist nearly solely of attacking with waves of T1 arty (e.g a SUPPORTING ATTACK UNIT) makes the game look ridiculous to new players.

It is patently ridiculous for T3 arty to have a requirement to both stop and then deploy in order to fire, whereas T1 arty does not even need to slow down. Unit AI inexplically cannot dodge an arty shot, despite being in the air for several seconds, and the fact that the shots can they also aim during flight only makes it worse.

Personally I would prefer to move all T1 arty to T2 level, make the unit a little larger and extend its HP and range to compensate, and raise its consturction cost by a factor of ten. But if that is not possible, at least force the unit to stop before firing - that would bring some actual strategy back into the early game. Spamming arty is not stragetic, or even tactical - it is just a game exploit.

[CrayzyNath]

I don't think T1 arty needs a nerf in therms of dmg or cost.
Since the main problem is their ability to demolish bases even in little numbers by just rolling threw i think it would be more usefull to reduce their speed and turnrate by a bit. You could still use it to drop and still be able to kill pds. But tanks could close up easier and destroy them.

Just got an idea: If its possible, why not make it only being able to shoot units infront of it, like GC, mega and chicken? so you could still use it as a very strong offensive unit but weaker in closecombat.
Just an idea, dont know if it would work.

maybe only change sera arty since its the only faction with a strong t1 arty on its own. in every other faction t1 arty is more support-unit against pds.
maybe thats wrong, im not a very high ranked player, but i watch many casts and most of the time sera-arty is dropped or does some 'OP-stuff'.

[brn4meplz]

You'd need to increase the range of the buggers. And that's a whole new can of worms. It's already retarded strong setting a group of medusas or fobos to attack ground on choke points. More range would just make it safer. There is far more involved in T1 dynamic than simply saying mobile arty should lock down.


Also, everyone knows the fobo is batshit stupid. The fervor has insane dps but damages in like a .1 area. The lobo fires every 10 seconds. The medusa does low damage.

The fobo does near pinpoint accuracy, with spread and the fervors dps.but that's why it costs 20 mass more then other arty units. That shit adds up. If the issue is the fobo, than address the fobo. Not t1 arty in general.

[rxnnxs]

T1 arty moves an fires. But T1 is not as advanced than T3 (T2). T3 has to stop. It should be vice versa.

Such and early unit as the T1 arty is making the armored walls useless.
they shoot further than tanks, fire really like a mortar and also have a great area of effect.

isn't it possible to make them shoot at least better when standing still and much less exactly when moving?

and when you look at the arcs that are being shot, it is ridiculous that even at close range they shoot that high.
i bet an artillery is shooting about 45°. nothing more is needed. just mortars would. because they are hitting from above then and not from the side.

if you compare it with a tank, that is made for moving and shooting and having more armor, the arty is really a kamikaze tool.
every T1 fortification is overrun by the arty. and they are used so often because a tank is not hitting mostly (and cybrans have a big problem here for shooting at a much lower arc than the rest) and even after death, one shot is for sure hitting the target.

unfortunately we can't dig the fortifications in....

[MushrooMars]

I agree with whoever said T1 Arty should be moved to T2. But then T1 PD would be overpowered; there must be some middle ground.

[BRNKoINSANITY]

Moving arty to t2 would break the game... All a player would have to do is spam t1 pd and nothing could get close. The opponent would be forced into spending mass for early t2, and there would be redundant long range units in t2. T1 has arty, t2 the MML, and t3 has high-damage mobile arty.

I think making the arty move slightly slower would be a good midground on this, and I do mean slightly. That way tanks could more easily overtake them and using arty would require more micro and protection than just "drop that transport right there and steamroll!"

That being said, I don't want to see this changed... The LABs are already an excellent counter to arty drops, and finding counters is part of the game. If you leave your self vulnerable to the point that 1. You can't shoot down transports and 2. you have no units or PD to deny a drop steamrolling your base, then in my opinion you deserve to get dropped.