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Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 16:52
by Ze_PilOt
So what's the problem ?

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 17:08
by Gyle
Ze_PilOt wrote:
Remove the energy storage from the buildings the SACU can build or remove the volatile explosion if the E storage is self destroyed.
Somehow find a way to make the SACU much more vulnerable underwater. 19k HP for cybran SACU who can spam HARM, is crazy for their cost.

As the problem is the teleporting-snipe technique, I suggest a cool-down time after a teleport (the SCUs can't do anything during XX seconds) instead of removing some arbitrary building.

To be honest I always thought fa needed a teleport inhibitor like in black opps. This automatically inserts a counter with minimal changes to gameplay.

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 17:34
by -_V_-
Ze_PilOt wrote:So what's the problem ?

Well HARMS are a super GREAT support for any naval battle, ensuring you a very good chance to overcome your opponent in a too easy way.
And then you only need to make shipyard on spot and reclaim while you camp!

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 17:36
by Ze_PilOt
So the problem is the HARMS (and a nerf was proposed), not the SCU.

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 20:42
to be honest i have never managed to win with a cybran sacu spam, even though i have tried it several times with 5 - 10 quantum gates. its true that some games have been won with sacu + harm kreeps but how many games where won by t3 navy? harms are great vs t2 navy or subs but you can kill them so easily with groundfire of cruisers or battleships.
even if you build your harms with several sacu´s there is enough time for naval units to shoot at it while beeing build.

no offence but i also think you should exclude all players with less than 1000 games or under 2k rating from balance discussions just because some of them havent fully understood the game dynamics. joining the balance forum is like visiting supcom wiki :D

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 22:25
by AppleSucks
What about making where they cant use the gun on the support com but they can build stuff? Even if qued up a lot of t1 pd after teleporting you should still be able to take out the support com before it does anything.

My reason behind this is, I sometimes teleport sub coms around the map and make stealth fields with them and making a small foothold base next to someone whos not paying attention or hidden radars.

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 22:31
by JeeVeS
ICKEN wrote:i also think you should exclude all players with less than 1000 games or under 2k rating from balance discussions just because some of them havent fully understood the game dynamics.

I might fap to this...

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 23:33
by Typo91
Typo91 - over 9000 games since SC beta - Tournament winner for FA beta key - approx 1700 rating

TL:DR ITs good the way it is... IF anything where to balance, I suggest this... a Warning just like strategic launch. The moment a player begins the teleport "QUANTUM SIGNATURE DETECTED" to all players.
-also if asked upon, I can provide the sound file, i have the skills and tools to create that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Below, here is my argument---------------

The Support commanders Teleport can be countered. Period.

I've always played many games against people that try to use the Seraphine Shield/HP upgraded teleport commander like its going to be banned int he next patch... I can make it completely useless.

if you have only 1 anti nuke by the time they have Nuke+support commander + tele you are at fault, you have failed to scout, you have failed to protect your anti, you have failed to keep up in eco, and you have failed to have a backup.

2 separate Anti nukes, each with 25 t1 turrets near by will completely counter the tele anti nuke attack...
If you can kill 100% of the commanders that teleport in, making it a one way trip, you can take the taste for it right out of his mouth. I've come up with a counter to this that works so well, they can't even kill the anti nuke i am protecting with a double teleport dose of 2 of them at the same time.

More anti's like that make it almost imposable.

Teleporting SCUs is EXTREMELY Expensive 15,000 mass and 1,500,000 energy! just for the upgrade.. its something like -10k power just to run the teleport operation. Seriously if he has this and you dont have atleast 7,500 mass and 300,000 energy in something to counter a teleport, you are in the wrong.
Cost of 25 t1 turrets = 6250 mass and 50,000 power... chump change at that point, and delivers a WHOOPING 4166.75 DPS!!! thats more then a ML laser, with 0 over kill.

WHICH RAISES ANOTHER POINT, having a ton of t3 turrents IN your base, not on hold fire, Fatboy's not on hold fire, t3 mobile arty not on hold fire, battleships, not on hold fire, T3 Strats not on hold fire. well its your fault if they all aim at the intruder and kill your anti nuke for him. ALWAYS keep track of your area effect units. Keep them in a quick group or something. 99% of the time, you dont need that stuff on auto fire, just in the front lines, away from you anti nuke.

Units that protect from teleports, with little or no overkill = Percies, Bricks, T3 gunships!,Sniper bots, t1 turrets, subcommanders, t3 tanks, a lot of things really.You can pile those all over your base for fun without to much worry

Aeon tele porting sub commanders are extremely easy to kill before they can do damage.

Let me make some points though.
TRUE - it is possible to have so many telesubcommanders if 2 equal eco players, one building a game ender(para or mavor like exp) that at the same time the player finishes the unit the other player can have about 6-7 support commanders beam in on it will almost certainly kill it, even if just by exploding. this is why you dont put all your eggs in one basket.

Someone can always try to bomb, crash, tac, arty, or tele that 1 thing.

The Cybran sub commander argument is completely false. Harms are EASY to kill as it is with battleships, (which is the real thing that needs fixed) And second, IF you sit around and allow your opponent to build 10 + subcommanders before you show up with navy, it is you that have already failed to match your enemies' eco most likely. You probably let him sit there and just build up anyway.

HARMs counter navy... thats what they are suppose to do, and they are not FREE, 3000 mass each, (11k hp) if he can spam them, chances are your problem is not that he has access to a certain unit, its that you failed to keep him in check... if he was so brasen as to not have his own navy, and wait for you to come over to his base before using his build power alone to counter you... well then you have just lost to a turtler my friend.

For only 1080 mass that same player could just spam the Cybran T2 Torpedo Launcher and get 5800hp and get just under half the DPS, for 1/3 the price! or have a Dessie for 2250 mass with guns!

These unique units are designed to force diverse play and strategy, in this case is, either learn to scout and target the ground, learn to eco and not let him get so far ahead of you, get out of the pool, or get out of my game!

Harms can be spotted with Spy planes, and sight towers, and subs in visual range. 15 T2 seaplanes (about 3600 mass) do 11250 damage per pass, thats just 1 pass!! let alone if you get 1 more on another pass!, but let me guess, he has some over powered sam sites too??? yea buddy, whatever.

If the harms is nerfed, cybran players will just spam more subs, and in numbers they kill everything the same.

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 21 Feb 2013, 23:43
by Typo91
AppleSucks wrote:making a small foothold base next to someone whos not paying attention or hidden radars.

Key words in your post indicate one of these players in the game is better at winning.

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 22 Feb 2013, 00:09
by Typo91
FunkOff wrote:
uberge3k wrote:As Plasma_Wolf has noted, the math simply does not add up. Being able to destroy structures with energy storage is an excellent example of emergent gameplay, and nerfing it just so that people can turtle more easily is ridiculous.

Make multiple SMDs. Or guard them with mercies/firebeetles/TMLs. Or scout your enemy and utilize the advantage that he gives you if he chooses to make the large investment in teleporting SCUs instead of waiting for him to finish and use it.

A "teleport warning" is ridiculous.

I agree with all of this.

This is right on the money - signed