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Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 18 Feb 2013, 18:58
by Plasma_Wolf
A couple of things I would like to state given the latest comments.

A unit can teleport to any place it desires. So it can teleport perfectly fine in between the SMD and the walls surrounding it. It can also teleport at some point away from them and then start reclaiming and then build the E storage. Reclaim and build is not blocked by shields.

Here are some plain and simple facts about the costs of the SCU+Teleport+SML+Missile vs the costs of the SMD+Missile.
The costs of the SCU + Teleport:
17.050 mass and 1.525.800 energy.
The cost of a strategic missile launcer + missile:
27.000 mass and 1.560.000 energy.

Total:
43.050 mass and 3.085.800 energy.

The costs of an SMD + missile:
11.100 mass and 465.000 energy.

So for the price of an SMD killing unit and the SML+missile to actually make the SMD killing unit viable, you can build almost 4 SMDs with each of them a missile in it.

That being said, I think the death damage of the E-storage is too high. I think 500 is enough (Yes I know that that can cause a chain reaction).
Additionally: I haven't seen a replay yet. From what I read in the previous discussion about this, there was just one game in which it happened. So: where is that game?

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 08:28
by Rocksteady
A warning after teleport has been initiated similar to nukes would be nice. At least then you would have some time to prepare , build pd's etc

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 09:51
by -_V_-
"You're getting butt fucked in 10 seconds" loool

Won't change anything if you didn't prepare for it.

And you guys keep forgetting that the SMD is not the only juicy target! Are you gonna cover up your whole base with PDs , JUST IN CASE ?

I repeat, t1 structure, few secs to build, 2k dmg!
That's "funny" to remain polite.

and again, 99.99999% of the case, you won't use a SACU to build those E storages, unless you want to abuse it with tele!

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 17:56
by rxnnxs
Ze_PilOt wrote:
As the problem is the teleporting-snipe technique, I suggest a cool-down time after a teleport (the SCUs can't do anything during XX seconds) instead of removing some arbitrary building.

+1
Teleport and start with an E-Storage? Noone uses that on purpose I guess. Allow him to build that after 2 Minutes!

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 19 Feb 2013, 23:11
by Plasma_Wolf
-_V_- wrote:And you guys keep forgetting that the SMD is not the only juicy target! Are you gonna cover up your whole base with PDs , JUST IN CASE ?

Name them. All of them.

Also (And I think V has said this as well): the exploit lies in the fact that an E-storage kill does 2K damage, not in the fact that SCUs can teleport

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 03:43
by nukehead2_2
May a noob like I sugest energy storage is modified so it can't damage any structures other than the player who builds it? I do believe massive experimentals don't crush your buildings when navagating your own base, perhaps the reverse of this programing could be applied here?

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 07:56
by ColonelSheppard
i think building storrage with T2 com to kills things is a pretty nice tactic, pls stick to the SACU nerf

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 13:01
by Wakke
ColonelSheppard wrote:i think building storrage with T2 com to kills things is a pretty nice tactic, pls stick to the SACU nerf


Agreed, it's kinda like the 'Tanja' unit from Red Alert, placing bombs on buildings 8-)

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 18:25
by Plasma_Wolf
Is reducing the death damage of the Estorage really so much of a problem in order to make building Estorage as a weapon not viable?

In order to make Estorage not useful, all propositions reside on nerfing unit resulting in a nerf in many other aspects. It's far-fetched and way to complicated compared to doing the simple thing: reduce that was causes a problem and that is the Storage death damage.

Re: SCUs nerf.

PostPosted: 20 Feb 2013, 19:22
by uberge3k
As Plasma_Wolf has noted, the math simply does not add up. Being able to destroy structures with energy storage is an excellent example of emergent gameplay, and nerfing it just so that people can turtle more easily is ridiculous.

Make multiple SMDs. Or guard them with mercies/firebeetles/TMLs. Or scout your enemy and utilize the advantage that he gives you if he chooses to make the large investment in teleporting SCUs instead of waiting for him to finish and use it.

A "teleport warning" is ridiculous. I've always disliked the nuclear launch detection too; it should be up to the player to pay attention to the game and be ready to defend against whatever offensive units their enemy has made. Teleporting SCUs, or nukes for that matter, take so long to build that you frankly deserve to lose if you have not scouted them and expect your SMD/whatever to magically remain protected against everything.