Scathis.

[BRNKoINSANITY]

The whole game can't be balanced around 10k maps... that being said, I know from experience that on 10k maps with teams I have played with the entire point of the first 20 minutes of the game is to hold the enemy off just barely long enough to build a scathis, and then bingo- game over. I think it does need to cost a little more to deter heavy usage on small maps. It would be nice to have it as an impractical but do-able option on 10k maps, but still cheap enough to use as naval deterrent etc. on 20k and up maps.

[Stratocaster]

The Scathis in campaign was never this strong.

GPG modified the stats to make the Scathis a true game ender, when they made it a 250k+ mass unit, with damage to rival the Mavor and Salvation. Many people thought it was ridiculous to keep all its stats but reduce its range and cost to build, but I recall Ze_pilot dismissing those complaints and "reasoned" that people should've spoke up during the balance change window. Now comes the suggestion to revert it...

IMO, drastic changes suck. There should be some sort of compromise.

[noms]

Did the scathis ever have longer range (1800) while costing ~250k mass? What did people think of it then?

For team games is it true that 10x10 maps are much more popular than 20x20?

[Seleucus24]

I play mainly phantom games, mostly 20x20 maps. Scathis when not banned is a massive problem in all those games because it is game over for your neighbor for 63k mass. People who make Mavors and Salvations are laughed at and lose, but those who make Scathis get a free kill. The limited range is an issue, and is the reason why it is not banned in the games.

Again compared to the other game enders it is 1/4 the mass cost while actually being better at killing a base than Mavor or Salvation. The range downside is real, so I would place the mass cost at about 1/2 the mass cost of other game enders, as you cannot expect to simply win the game based on this 1 unit, whereas Mavor and Salvation make serious problems for all opponents.

And I have played multiple games where Mavors and Salvations and t4 nukes were made and were deciding factors. ( though generally 3 T3 arty would have done a better job imo )

[Wakke]

I say reduce its range, so you can't use it for base-to-base bombardment, even on the smallest maps.
Making it just like other game-ending arties is boring imo.

[Ze_PilOt]

Did the scathis ever have longer range (1800) while costing ~250k mass? What did people think of it then?

For team games is it true that 10x10 maps are much more popular than 20x20?

The scathis was 299k mass for 4000 range. I don't think 50k reduction from that will make it worth building anymore, on any map.

Also, you must take in account that the stationary shield will probably be freed of the last shield nerf, making a direct nerf to the scathis.

Again, it's not because the 3 others game enders are stupidly priced that the problem is with the one that can actually be build on maps that are played.
It's not a real game-ender anymore ?
Hell with it, faction diversity blabla ? Who said that EVERY FACTION should have a long-ranged weapon able to destroy any base ? (by the way, the scathis was NOT able to do it due to the OPness of shields).

And almost no one play on map >= 40x40. Making a weapon effective only on these maps will virtually make the unit disappearing from the game.

By the way, may I remind you that the current stats are not coming from nowhere, but are vanilla stats (of course the mass/energy costs are scaled to FA).
There was one area of the game that was way better in vanilla, and it was the XPs.

[Gyle]

[

Why is there even a game ender that is practical to build for 63k mass?

I couldnt agree more with that statement. Personally I dont really see why it was altered in the first place. It seems to have been in an attempt to bring these units into play for the more competant players rather then just us joes. I totally applaud that ideal but it was only applied to the scathis and not to any other game enders which is in itself an imbalance. Being aware of this the architect of the last change altered its stats to try and make it less of a game ender. Now its stuck in limbo, highly specialized and only useful in a handful of situations.

[noms]

The scathis was 299k mass for 4000 range. I don't think 40k reduction from that will make it worth building anymore, on any map.
Again, it's not because the 3 others game enders are stupidly priced that the problem is with the one that can actually be build on maps that are played.
Again, almost no one play on map >= 40x40. Making a weapon effective only on these maps will virtually make the unit disappearing from the game.

Understood.

New proposals:

Current: mass 63k, energy 780k, dps 1580, range 330, max speed 1

Option 1: mass 126k, energy 2520k, dps 1580, range 330, max speed 1
Option 2: mass 200k, energy 4000k, dps 1580, range 1600, max speed 2

Compared to:

Disruptor: mass 87k, energy 870k, dps 460, range 700
Salvation: mass 270k, energy 5400k, dps 2555, range 1800
Mavor: mass 300k, energy 6000k, dps 1500, range 4000

Also, you must take in account that the stationary shield will probably be freed of the last shield nerf, making a direct nerf to the scathis.

The scathis was still too powerful with the previous version of the shields.

[Ze_PilOt]

Option 1 sounds good to me.

Also, about the current cost, it was done so it has some advantage over its mass in T3 mobile arty (the range), but way less efficient DPS-wise (1500 VS 5300). Also balanced by the fact it was low on HP.

Was the same thinking than other XPs : You dump your mass into them, but they are basically less efficient than their mass in T3.

[Mr-Smith]

scatis is not ovepowerd.
its just than overpowerd if you play thermo and dont allowe nukes and air.

i would like to give the scatis some sort of amphibic ability maybe let it hover.