SACUS AND T3 land

[yeager]

SACUs and t3 will be the topic of today's post, seeing as it is the most broken part of the game
Uef and sera have an OP sacu, for sera oc should just cost more, but uef needs a very long look at, in the original supcom I would get this, but now that the Percival has been added the SACU really needs to be nerfed
Aeon: needs to be buffed, I will talk about that in a moment
Cybran: t3 aa hurt it's usefulness, please buff the aa on the SACU
Sera and aeon in the early stages of the late game: they suck, sera begins to make up for this with an experimental killer of an sacu, but aeon doesn't really get anything special for the field. Also aeon and sera have no defense against percivals and bricks the harbinger can't hold up in general and the oothum can't hit units with anything bigger than a t1 scout in its way! It's sooooo terain dependant. To fix this give aeon a gun upgrade specifically built for killing percivals on the scau, so that it Acts kinda like a 3.7 unit. for sera oothum take off the bolters on the sides completely, then multiply the rate of fire on the large gun by 4 and your back to 400dps with slightly more rang and slightly less terain dependancy. also, the sera t3 shield is horrible, it looks good at first bu it is in no way cost efficient(then again that's a topic for another day) i explain my ideas regarding the oothum slightly more in depth in my other post: concerning the oothum

[Ceneraii]

SACU's suffer from hitbox problems and some other issues atm (shield disruptor not working against the shield, etc) so yes they are horribly broken. Aeon is a touchy subject, they are already incredibly strong with oprora and harb rush. Othuums are indeed not that great, but snipers are incredibly good actually. Percies and bricks are fine. Remember that uef doesn't have a direct-fire experimental so it makes sense that percies are their experimental killer, the buildtime discrepancy between t3 and experimentals means that it's not that hard to get an exp out before there's a meaningful amount of percies on the field.

Also food for thought, I saw some of your previous balance ideas and I get the feeling you are only looking at individual units but you should remember that the factions are balanced for the length of the entire game. What this means is that it's pointless to look just at t4 stage, you have to look at the balance from t1 to t4 stage and how those effects pile up It's common mistake for new players to make so don't worry about it.

[Apofenas]

Cybran SCU AA is so much brilliant weapon. There is no need to change it and ofc buff it. It turns SCU into walking SAM with 19k hp, ability to build, reclaim and shoot units. SAMs themselves rape air - it's a fact.
SCUs has been discussed again and again since a long time. For example here viewtopic.php?f=42&t=7219
They will probably be the main focus of next balance patch, but nothing should be made untill hitboxes are fixed on them.
There were a lot of suggestions of changing aeon SCUs: adding gun upgrade, mini chrono dumpherner, absolver effect, ect. It will be done by balance counsilor.(Though nobody knows when and how)
Chicken bot, GC and pretty much any direct fire experimental looses mass for mass to its t3 equivalent(even titans) in direct fight. But the thing is, you need ~10 more time to get t3 units with same build power. It's major issue of t4 vs t3, not chicken bot vs experimentals. I had an idea to make it like in diamond mode, where only SCUs can build experimentals, which would be far stronger for their mass cost, but also long to build, as it should be. But it needs opinion of experienced players.
Othuum is most likely going to get dps tweak between its weapons, but again it's up to balance counsior.

[yeager]

SACU's suffer from hitbox problems and some other issues atm (shield disruptor not working against the shield, etc) so yes they are horribly broken. Aeon is a touchy subject, they are already incredibly strong with oprora and harb rush. Othuums are indeed not that great, but snipers are incredibly good actually. Percies and bricks are fine. Remember that uef doesn't have a direct-fire experimental so it makes sense that percies are their experimental killer, the buildtime discrepancy between t3 and experimentals means that it's not that hard to get an exp out before there's a meaningful amount of percies on the field.

Also food for thought, I saw some of your previous balance ideas and I get the feeling you are only looking at individual units but you should remember that the factions are balanced for the length of the entire game. What this means is that it's pointless to look just at t4 stage, you have to look at the balance from t1 to t4 stage and how those effects pile up It's common mistake for new players to make so don't worry about it.

Yeah, I know, sera have great t2 an aeon great t1, but this fades out late game, also I wasn't going to ground the precise soo hard, but the air to ground for sera at t3 is bomber, although good, doesn't seem to be able to save the day from Percival spam
As for only looking at one tier: sera have bad t1, kind like cybran (art is 50% better and costs 50% more, silencing the advantage) great t2, horrible t3 (although it is good when u can eliminate variables an fight on flat maps) on navy their t1 is crap, t2 demands heavy micro, and t3 sup isn't any better than the cybran t2 counter part right now (which is super dumb) and for air: sera has t1 advantage, by far the worst t2 (although fighter bomber is good) and t3 barely holds overall, although the scout is great. Seeing this I wanted a sera navy buff, where sera t1 sub was still the worst but had torpedo flair instead, giving it purpose later, like cybran arty, t2 is fine i guess, and the subhunter was nerfed too much. As for land I just want oothum to walk the talk on the battle field, so it can hold up against precivals in appropriate numbers. That about it ( for sera):D
Oh, and I love sniper bots against early monkeys, try harder acu rushes, and sACUs attacks, but like I said they aren't cost effective agains the Percival, not unless they are behind a bunch of t2 pd to finish the job when the Percival gets close

[yeager]

Cybran SCU AA is so much brilliant weapon. There is no need to change it and ofc buff it. It turns SCU into walking SAM with 19k hp, ability to build, reclaim and shoot units. SAMs themselves rape air - it's a fact.
SCUs has been discussed again and again since a long time. For example here viewtopic.php?f=42&t=7219
They will probably be the main focus of next balance patch, but nothing should be made untill hitboxes are fixed on them.
There were a lot of suggestions of changing aeon SCUs: adding gun upgrade, mini chrono dumpherner, absolver effect, ect. It will be done by balance counsilor.(Though nobody knows when and how)
Chicken bot, GC and pretty much any direct fire experimental looses mass for mass to its t3 equivalent(even titans) in direct fight. But the thing is, you need ~10 more time to get t3 units with same build power. It's major issue of t4 vs t3, not chicken bot vs experimentals. I had an idea to make it like in diamond mode, where only SCUs can build experimentals, which would be far stronger for their mass cost, but also long to build, as it should be. But it needs opinion of experienced players.
Othuum is most likely going to get dps tweak between its weapons, but again it's up to balance counsior.

Yeah, I was just trying to keep from being racist against cybrans in my talk, you know how touchy things are these days lol

[Ceneraii]

Yeah, I know, sera have great t2 an aeon great t1, but this fades out late game, also I wasn't going to ground the precise soo hard, but the air to ground for sera at t3 is bomber, although good, doesn't seem to be able to save the day from Percival spam
As for only looking at one tier: sera have bad t1, kind like cybran (art is 50% better and costs 50% more, silencing the advantage) great t2, horrible t3 (although it is good when u can eliminate variables an fight on flat maps) on navy their t1 is crap, t2 demands heavy micro, and t3 sup isn't any better than the cybran t2 counter part right now (which is super dumb) and for air: sera has t1 advantage, by far the worst t2 (although fighter bomber is good) and t3 barely holds overall, although the scout is great. Seeing this I wanted a sera navy buff, where sera t1 sub was still the worst but had torpedo flair instead, giving it purpose later, like cybran arty, t2 is fine i guess, and the subhunter was nerfed too much. As for land I just want oothum to walk the talk on the battle field, so it can hold up against precivals in appropriate numbers. That about it ( for sera):D
Oh, and I love sniper bots against early monkeys, try harder acu rushes, and sACUs attacks, but like I said they aren't cost effective agains the Percival, not unless they are behind a bunch of t2 pd to finish the job when the Percival gets close

Sera t1 isn't bad, it's quite good. Their arty costs more because it hovers (an extreme advantage!), their t1 navy is good (subs are not really relevant in navy battle, frigates are where it's at), their t2 navy is arguably the best together with cybran and requires the least micro compared to other t2 navies (their destroyer can't miss!). The t3 subs require intense micro but will wreck anything otherwise. As for t1 air.. They have the best bomber and their t2 air isn't much different from other factions t2 air (other than aeon), although they have superior transports. Well othuum could use slight dps shift, but sera t3 armies with good composition can be absolutely devastating compared to their counterparts, what makes them suffer a lot at t3 stage in my opinion is that their mobile shield is kind of shit (way worse shield hp/mass compared to aeon and uef t2 shields... this for a shield that only becomes available at higher tech is kinda retarded). As for sniper bots, have you tried the fire toggle? They outrun percies and are twice as cheap. With 2 sniper bots that's a 4k dmg volley every 15 seconds. (http://content.faforever.com/faf/vault/ ... id=3330743)

[yeager]

Yeah, I know, sera have great t2 an aeon great t1, but this fades out late game, also I wasn't going to ground the precise soo hard, but the air to ground for sera at t3 is bomber, although good, doesn't seem to be able to save the day from Percival spam
As for only looking at one tier: sera have bad t1, kind like cybran (art is 50% better and costs 50% more, silencing the advantage) great t2, horrible t3 (although it is good when u can eliminate variables an fight on flat maps) on navy their t1 is crap, t2 demands heavy micro, and t3 sup isn't any better than the cybran t2 counter part right now (which is super dumb) and for air: sera has t1 advantage, by far the worst t2 (although fighter bomber is good) and t3 barely holds overall, although the scout is great. Seeing this I wanted a sera navy buff, where sera t1 sub was still the worst but had torpedo flair instead, giving it purpose later, like cybran arty, t2 is fine i guess, and the subhunter was nerfed too much. As for land I just want oothum to walk the talk on the battle field, so it can hold up against precivals in appropriate numbers. That about it ( for sera):D
Oh, and I love sniper bots against early monkeys, try harder acu rushes, and sACUs attacks, but like I said they aren't cost effective agains the Percival, not unless they are behind a bunch of t2 pd to finish the job when the Percival gets close

Sera t1 isn't bad, it's quite good. Their arty costs more because it hovers (an extreme advantage!), their t1 navy is good (subs are not really relevant in navy battle, frigates are where it's at), their t2 navy is arguably the best together with cybran and requires the least micro compared to other t2 navies (their destroyer can't miss!). The t3 subs require intense micro but will wreck anything otherwise. As for t1 air.. They have the best bomber and their t2 air isn't much different from other factions t2 air (other than aeon), although they have superior transports. Well othuum could use slight dps shift, but sera t3 armies with good composition can be absolutely devastating compared to their counterparts, what makes them suffer a lot at t3 stage in my opinion is that their mobile shield is kind of shit (way worse shield hp/mass compared to aeon and uef t2 shields... this for a shield that only becomes available at higher tech is kinda retarded). As for sniper bots, have you tried the fire toggle? They outrun percies and are twice as cheap. With 2 sniper bots that's a 4k dmg volley every 15 seconds. (http://content.faforever.com/faf/vault/ ... ?id=333074)

I want trying to say t1 land sucked, but I isn't the best by a ways, t2 destroyer has a Nasty habit of firing before it's beams are Locked on and is wreaked by aeon, I don't know when the last I started my navy production witha frigate was, t2 gunship and torp bomber suck compered to their counter parts, case closed, and t3 subs lose against t2 cybran subs, unless u keep a cruser in the mix (which always dies). Thanks for the sniper bot vid. And yes, the sera shield is horrible in hein site. And like I said sera t3 sucks in general except on flat maps, where it rules

[Ceneraii]

If you dodge against aeon destro's the seraphim wins by quite a long shot actually. Well if you start navy with subs that's your choice, but I recommend making frigates instead, t1 subs are more or less useless and shouldn't be built unless you really have no other choice. Sera torp bomber is ass, true. But so is every other one except cybran. As for the seraphim gunship, well it's a little worse but the difference is marginal at best. The seraphim t3 subs outrange cybran t2 ones by 20 (almost 50% more range) and have beastly AA as well. The t3 subs are micro units, kind of like rangebots for navy.

http://content.faforever.com/faf/vault/ ... id=3330842

[yeager]

If you dodge against aeon destro's the seraphim wins by quite a long shot actually. Well if you start navy with subs that's your choice, but I recommend making frigates instead, t1 subs are more or less useless and shouldn't be built unless you really have no other choice. Sera torp bomber is ass, true. But so is every other one except cybran. As for the seraphim gunship, well it's a little worse but the difference is marginal at best. The seraphim t3 subs outrange cybran t2 ones by 20 (almost 50% more range) and have beastly AA as well. The t3 subs are micro units, kind of like rangebots for navy.

But cybran have stealth, so range is mute, that's why cybrans win in spam, gunship is weaker than uef in every respect and doesn't have transport clamp. I get where your going with t3 sub but you have to remember it can be 1 shoted my aeon t3 torp bomber, that is retarded at best, it use to have health enough to survive one shot but now doesn't, this is crap, and Brink will back me here.
And as for destroyer your proving my original point, it demands heavily micro, not just against aeon but uef too, or u lose to torpedo boat, destroyer combo and cybran is a tie unless he quick snags a mermaid, in which case you have to get a frigate (this is where my t1 torp flair comes in, everyone as a support unit at t2 but sera[aeon mobile shield+ destroyer beat any navy equivilant at t2])
P.s. Thanks for walking me threw this

[Ceneraii]

Uhh I'm a bit too lazy to continue this argument, I'll say that those points are not difficult to refute and leave it at that Maybe someone else will do it. Sorry if it's a bit of a disappointment but I feel like this is going nowhere xD