Aeon T2 land stuff

[Ithilis_Quo]

I have some complaining about aeon t2 land. And suggestion that can help here, but because i know how it is go, this would nothing change so feel free to add with some other complaining
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Obsidian - strongest and weakest T2 units. Strongest on paper, weakest in reality.

problem of obsidian is very big price. obsidian cost 360+37,5 mass. that is a LOT for T2 units. it want to be same as sera T2 bot. that in 1v1 can beat, but sera bot is much stronger because have superior range (and cheaper because dont need 1/2 T1 pgen).

low range mean that obsidians are total ussles against ACU, because are to much near another obsidians (because low range&speed) and die 3 for one OC when attack acu. That is as when for one OC die 5-6 pillar. Can you imagine that one OC normaly kill your 6 pillars? When you play aeon its daily reality.

What can help here?
- if it is technical posible add minimal distance between units on what naturaly dont go. (integrate Domino˝s target priority would fix this) And tell obsi "man dont go on distance less as 2,5 to another obsidian!". same can be add on other T2/3 units. but obsidian need it most.
- make him cheaper. because want to be same effective as sera bot, but range make very big differences of same dmg (and only 10% less hp), and need 1/2 pgen for shield. I suggest 333m 1665e and 1480bt (40s->37s) that is 370m with 1/2 pgen what is still more as sera bot
- make recharge time on shield 37,5s (40hp/s) instead of 75s, because with 75s for recharge shield isnt real advantage, but more disadvantage (because dont have so many vet hp, because dont have 60% of hp while energy crash )
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Eversong - MML

problem of eversong is very big rof, that mean is about 50% less effective as another mml. 50% is a LOT. Also is is slowest, and dont havy any advantage with others as cybran splited missile.

What can help here:
- add on missile 2hp, for be same effective as UEF that is in middle.
- lower dps 60 ->55, for be fair for sera mml who would be then 16% less effective
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Blaze/Yanzee

problem of blaze and yanzee is that are ussles on land battle. on yenze it is even worst.
blaze cost 10% more as pillar, and have 10% less dps, 30% less hp and 30% more speed. what is good but ussles in confrontation. same as mantis have much more speed as other tanks is not superior in battle. And because obsidian is ussles against acu, blaze is crap against everything else.

What can help here?
- less price 220m 1320e->198m & 1100e (-50/s, tanks have -45/s, wagner -60/s, ripride -60/s but cost less energy as others because less build time for mas)
- more hp, about 10% 1050->1150 (1300->1450 hp on yenzee, 1700->1900 on riptide)
- less speed on water 4,3 on land and 3,4 on water (-20%) for prevent be op on water ( i hate hover spam that deny everything building from naval factory)
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Aeon have seriously weakest T2, where strongest T2 units is shield.. that is quite crap. This would not make any drastic change. only make thinks more equal with hold on fraction diversity principes.

[ZLO_RD]

at 1rst they have auroras and spirits... then at t3 they have harbringers, and also very long range ACU with cheap ACU shield, that can kill ML

Before seraphim times, they also used to have best t2 pd

harbs are 50% faster, and 33% cheaper than Percy or brick, and they have same dps, but also great fire cycle - 1 shot = 300 dmg
witch makes them good against t1 tanks and t2 tanks imho (5 shot to kill pillar, 0 overkill)

you also have swift winds, so you have slight advantage in air game, and we know how hard it is to attack without having air
also mercies can scare away enemy acu, while you may defend with obsidians...

What i mean, that aeon t2 units being weak is not really a problem when you look at whole picture of battlefield
I may agree that most maps theese days turn into endless t2 spam very often, but that also makes aeon awesome and diverse, cause you can't really spam t2 for too long, or if you do you will have to attack with it (keeping 50 obsidians alive is such a pain, -500 power)

[Iszh]

Are you seriously complaining that aeon has weak units on t2 Oo drink less beer. Maybe you know i am UEF and my t1 is slaugtered by aeon t1, my t2 is butchered partly by t1 and by t2 makes not much difference and a rush for t3 ends up in titan vs harbinger on a bigger map.
Really, my mongoose are killed by aurora in seconds if i dont pay attention and my pillar tanks are the only 200 mass tank of a faction on t2 and has to compete with obsidian ilshavoh and rhino. Obsidian tank is not weak vs t1 units because they can hardly harm it. Blaze sucks a lot but at least something must be weak there.

Obsidian:
It is weak against acu? thats new because i thought they are acu killers those tanks. even upgraded acu gun cant harm those tanks. Only and really only OC can kill them. With 6 or 7 of those tanks you can kill an acu if enemy has not 500 e income.

Eversong:
It is fine isnt it? against defences you simply have to stop them and shoot the same time. the result is that they will have even more power than uef mml because they fly faster in the target. UEF mml has to unpack the weapon and they fly up then straight and then down again. If you check your aeon mml the rockets fly very deep and straight to the enemy. Advantage is they hit faster. Disadvantage is they sometimes cant shoot over walls and kill a t1 pd on a hill. If you would increase rocket life of aeon mml they would be simply imba if you stop them and shoot all the same time. No tmd could stop them anymore.

Blaze:
Why it should be better than the uef main battle tank on t2 .... it is a hover.

And a final question to you, did you notice that aeon has insane shields on t2 with only 75 e cost. As uef i pay 110 e for a weaker shield .... dont even think about buffing aeon!

[Ithilis_Quo]

they have auroras and spirits.

against T2 spam it lower tech ussles, pilar kill auroras for 2 shot, (2,6s) rhino 1,5s isvah 1,2s. against hoplite can use only acu with range

Before seraphim times, they also used to have best t2 pd

Pd realy doesnt mather when you need build pd, you probably start losing

harbs are 50% faster, and 33% cheaper than Percy or brick,

and have no chance against them, and mostly dont have harb against T2 spam in time

you also have swift winds, so you have slight advantage in air game,

doesnt mather against T2 spam, 2 flak defend army against gunships

cause you can't really spam t2 for too long,

not only for long, but you cant spam it. for too big price and be easy stoped by pdcreep (eversong really suck) Or by acu with gun and e storage

Only and really only OC can kill them. With 6 or 7 of those tanks you can kill an acu if enemy has not 500 e income.

when you have 6-7 obsidian. enemy would have 500 e income. 6-7 obsidian is as 10-14 pillar. and first 6 pillar imediatly die for first OC, second 6 die after 5sec on other OC. and you still have your 8-10 pillars when enemy have only acu or with one obsidian. Im sory but you are wrong here, you simply cant aproch on acu with obsidians. they are kileble only with oc, but that vaporize them extremly easy and deny much more mass every 3,3s as other units. Even rhino is more imunu to oc, because more range and speed, that mean is more spread as obsi

rush for t3 ends up in titan vs harbinger on a bigger map.

why would you make ussles titan (i would also complain about shity titans, but topic name limit me:) ) when you can make perci where aeon cant beat perci effective? build percy and harb never stop you. What can do aeon against perci? Nothing

my pillar tanks are the only 200 mass tank of a faction on t2 and has to compete with obsidian ilshavoh and rhino

yeah obsidian destroy every of them in 1v1, but cant go near acu, and cant front atack on T1. 1 obsi is as 2 pillar = 3000hp and 110dps with fine rof, and fast speed. instead of 2750 and 120 with not fine rof and is slow, on against pilar need another 4sec rof because stay with 20hp. deal with rhino is same as deal with pilar. spam pilar is super easy, try spam obsidians

against defences you simply have to stop them and shoot the same time

when you do it with others mml, it is same effective you only break defense 2x faster

No tmd could stop them anymore.

no aeon mml can stop tmd, you need build 2x more mml for have same efect as uef, ok maybe 1,7mml because lower arc (it dont fly faster, it have same muzzle, and misile make serpentine that take similar time as others) was you even see aeon T2 spam ? Or pdcreep defeated by aeon T2 ? You jast need make tmd and your own mml and sucesfuly defendet. aeon cant deal with it.

Why it should be better than the uef main battle tank on t2 .... it is a hover

it is not better as pilar, 1150 and 50dps vs 1500 and 54dps. so hover mean that it can be used only against navy? Or agaisnt what you want use blaze? against T1 ?

aeon has insane shields on t2 with only 75 e cost

yeah shield is great, best aeon t2 units. but all others are weak, because have great shield?
btw aeon shield cost 144+282(for e) = 425mass
uef shield cost 120+410=530mass
aeon is about 20% better, its not drastic advatange for excuse weaker all other on T2, this is not any drastic change, its very slithli buff to make them able do t2 spam, and not skip this phase asap

[Vee]

You want to buff aeon t2 when aeon already has the best t1 and by far the best early t3? You want to buff hover when in fact it should be nerfed?? Wut.

[Ithilis_Quo]

yes. And im not crazy

have best T1 main units and worst T2 that is supost to be skip. game mantra change. T2 spam is much more ofen as before engi mode. Harb is perfect but it is not T2 units. and total skip 2 and go for harb is very risky.

hover is supost to nerf because is too strong against naval units. but also is too weak against land units. Isnt? Isnt better solution buf hover on land, and nerf hover against navy? Navy have problem hit hover (ice dreamer fix it) and big spamable (more e cost deny it) and less speed make them good for cros water, but not be so effective.

I dont want to troll and bring some insine suggestion. I realy think that it can help.

[da_monstr]

I kind of like the Obsidians as they are, TBH. Short range, yes, but run for your lives when they close in.
Evensongs are simply unremarkable.
However, I do agree in regard of Blazes, they are just soooo weak, dealing no damage at all. A bit of health wouldn't hurt too.

[Neutrino]

Blazes might be weak, but they are still very useful in niche situations where their cost and weakness relative to core land units is mitigated, and used at the right times they can be devastating. A concrete example: Saltrock Colony neither player has invested heavily in Navy, at T2 one player goes T2 core land, the other counters with T2 hover (or amphib). Now the guy with the hover can circumnavigate the island destroying the other guy's eco while avoiding any fights where he does not have sufficient numbers advantage in the area to offset the weaker hover units, after pursuing that strategy for a while he ends up with a decisive numbers advantage because of the damage to the other guys eco.

I'd always presumed that was how the hover/amphib units were intended to be used. Hoverspam is imo borderline imba vs navy but if you use speed alone to address that balance then you hurt the very thing that gives the hover/amphib units their flexibility.

It's always struck me as odd that hover/amphib units like the Riptide and Wagner should be faster, better armoured and do more damage then their equivalent core land units. I'd be interested to experiment with nerfing the damage/armour values of Riptide and Wagner so that the Pillar and Rhino have better armour and do more damage while the Riptide and Wagner remain faster and then even out the cost. In that scenario the Blaze would no longer be the odd man out and navy would rightfully rule the waves.

If attacking an acu with Obsidians is it not possible to use spread move before engaging to mitigate the risk of losing multiple units to overcharge?

[Ithilis_Quo]

If attacking an acu with Obsidians is it not possible to use spread move before engaging to mitigate the risk of losing multiple units to overcharge?

they have very low range and speed, that mean you have no place for spread if click attack on acu. when you dont order atack on acu, they can be spreaded, but then they have target priority for all other untis as acu, and you waste so many shot for some other staff, and lose most of comand that you want to take on your unit.
And still when you lose one, it is as lose 2 pillar, lose one is big pain, but its not rare when you lose 3. That is a main problem -> big price. That units cant be much cheaper, because is very strong. i know it, but only on moment when dont force acu with OC or PD creep (eversong is crap) what is pretty comon.

you can see it on map when you can not avoid enemy acu/pd as is for example sirtis major. Aeon are on non air spot total ussles. you can build obsidian, that imediatly die, or balze that have half units ratio as pilar/rhino = half effectivity = waste 50% of mass because you are aeon. mml is not efective break pd defense, and you are done. you simply dotn have T2 units that can be effective on place where is enemy acu or pd creep.

[Gorton]

Some points:

Land :
-You already have the ability to force an opponent to go early t2 land to even have a chance of defending your t1.
-An ACU can only defeat aeon t1 land with gun upgrades.
-An ACU can only be in 1 place at one time. You have your own superior gun ACU.
-Obsidians are like reverse rangebots. Shorter range, if your opponent doesn't kite them they get absolutely destroyed. They are a very strong unit.
-You have a very cheap way to block huge amounts of damage to fragile aurora or towards obsidian (t2 mobile shield)
-Aeon player can rush t3 land with previous advantages and one harbringer will destroy everything you have with no chance of catching or killing it

Then Air :
-Aeon players can make more air because they don't have to make as much land early
-Your bombers STUN THINGS
-At t2 air you can have swift winds to ensure air dominance
-gunships are useful