ACU TML & TMDs balance

[Poch]

Hi

Let's open another topic about the TAC com ^^

I'll be quick and just make a simple list of what is wrong/should be done imo :

• Make UEF & Sera the same
• Increase ACU TML cost compared to normal TML since it has 50% more HPs
• ACU tml fired directly at TMD wins (the tmd get destroyed) > its semi-random and depends on the distance and the missile trajectory : too close acu win, mi distance tmd wins, too far acu wins. Unreliable behaviour that doesn't really make any sense. Is ACU TML supposed to win 1v1 versus a TMD ? YES / NO ?
• Sera missile still flies too high to be shot down by UEF TMDs sometimes
• TMD mass cost is higher/roughly same as the missile cost : 280 mass
• TMD build time is (stupidly ?) high : 48 second for a single T2 engineer to build
• If you scout in time and start countering it, with a "classic" base you need a pair of TMD in two or three different places to defend. If you don't have 2 TMDs per area, the ACU TML will win.
• So if you can build the TMD in 24 seconds with 2 engies, you still need 48 second (two TMD) to defend a single spot. By the time you get T2 engies, spread them & build the TMD it is usually too late.
• 6 TMDs + 6 T2 engies will cost you 2.5k mass and you will need several minutes to set the TMDS up.
• ACU TML + 1 T2 Pgens + a few tacs cost the same price but is waaaaay easier to set up (0 logistic), and with minimal team energy overflow it's more than enough to get it. And you probably won't waste the T2 pgen / acu, when tmds are counter-only units.
• If you scout T2 acu building a T2 pgen and immediaty assume he is going TML ACU, by the time you rush T2 facs + T2 engies + spread them + build TMDs, on most maps unless you were already ready you can't do much to counter it.
• Even if you counter it, you get no reclaim, ennemy pgens are not wasted, and that is a tool he can still probably use elsewhere.

Of course it's much worse in team games than in 1v1.

I don't think the ACU Com need a nerf, but i think missile/tmds cost & build time should be adjusted. For me it is mostly the build time & T2 engineer travel time combined with the fact than you need 2 tmds that make it hard to counter when done early. If you compare the acu tml cost & the defense cost, maybe it needs to be adjusted but in the first place the biggest problem is early game counter requires almost-impossible logistic imo.

PS : i love the ACU TML and i use it a lot, especially for com drops or close combat fight, but i personnaly think its almost impossible to defend in the context of team base snipe early in the game.

[IceDreamer]

Changes have been planned for a while as part of an experimental patch not scheduled for release for at least a year or so. However, parts of this patch are now being readied to come in as part of the next patch, whenever that happens, because of the number of bugfixes and the way that everything's come together over time. As far as ACU TMLs go, the Sera is being made totally identical to the UEF, the Billy is getting a slight buff (Outer ring damage buff, inner ring nerf, reload buff), and nuke outer ring damage is being adjusted to make at last a tiny bit of sense.

Once that's done, then we can look at missile HP/height/speed etc.

[BushMaster]

As far as ACU TMLs go, the Sera is being made totally identical to the UEF

please no, every bit of faction diversity we remove, however small, torrments me inside. its the wrong (and easy) answer to the problem if you ask me. why not just make all factions identical, removes most balance problems...(hint: because we like diversity)

[IceDreamer]

As far as ACU TMLs go, the Sera is being made totally identical to the UEF

please no, every bit of faction diversity we remove, however small, torrments me inside. its the wrong (and easy) answer to the problem if you ask me. why not just make all factions identical, removes most balance problems...(hint: because we like diversity)

Your concern is appreciated, and I share it. However, in this case we are talking about something which really should be changed. The Seraphim upgrade costs exactly the same as the UEF's, as do the missiles, but they have an extra HP (Allowing them to hit TMD directly), 3 AOE rather than 2, and can also be fired at targets extremely close to the ACU (Speed of missile deployment + high AOE makes it EXTREMELY hard to dodge, an incredibly unfair weapon in the eyes of many players).

If the missile upgrade costed more, the situation would be more acceptable, but it doesn't. Also, I don't think upping the cost instead of nerfing the missile is the right choice because the whole 6000 Damage melee weapon is utterly obnoxious. If you want diversity, everyone should discuss how to do that (Higher Damage, speed, HP, AOE for higher cost or reload time or something), but the close-fire ability will be gone (Probably).

[ColonelSheppard]

If you buff the billy you must also do something against the Loyalist Redirecting.
Also you should post some replays where this was a real problem. (not the mele thing i totally agree on that one, put minnimum range to 25 or so and that will be fixed forever) But i feel like even in teamgames a taccommander could hardly be considered op)
And pls not only setons.

[Ionic]

Just half the HP of the missile and set minimum range would be a good start. It should be able to fly over TMD either, but we can fix that next.

[galacticfear]

Tac duels have been part of the game for many years, and featured in countless games, I think it would be a sin to remove that ability. Nerf it a bit, sure. Make a tmd able to take it down, sure. But removing the epicness of tml acu vs acu and the dodge/shot war which is such a cool part of fa would be very sad.

[Gorton]

A bit of explanation toward the difference between the uef and sera ability to fight close combat :

The uef one has a much faster initial (it's double the sera one) launch speed, meaning it's effective range (minimum) is almost doubled. Because of this, it can't arc to hit anything at all within some radius of ~20 from the com.
The sera one launch speed means it can be fired and hit within a much smaller radius accurately.

This makes the uef one almost useless in close combat.

[keyser]

well i think acu tml is really good.
In fact i never go for the static tml as sera.

why ? because i don't feel like going acu tml is a commitment.
for exemple :
static tml : mass: 825, energy: 4500, build time: 700
acu tml : mass: 1000, energy: 50000, buildtime: 1400

the mass difference isn't that important.
the efficiency : having a acu tml allow you to get around tmd and continue to kill mexx even after the surprise. + acu tml is really good in close combat. + the missile has more health. + it's not that easy to scout the upgrade. + if you have already the T2 upgrade you can spam them pretty fast.

the only thing making viable the static tml, is the difference in energy cost. 10x more for the acu tml. So you can rush for static tml easilly. (without building T2 pgen)

moreover, for the tml acu, in most of my game (10x10 map), i can go for it, without fucking up my eco.
for exemple, on a wonder map. you often have different stage, at some point you gonna need to get to the T3 stage (static arty)... you gonna need at least 1-2 T2 pgen to support it. Since you already had to build them for your tml acu, the transition to T3 land is really easy to make.
so you can include tml acu in your game plan, without too much commitment.
then later, when you already use your tml acu efficiently, that the com isn't really that usefull in fight, you can go for RAS/ARAS.

tbh, i don't know why i shouldn't go for tml. only if there is tons of tmd already up.
it allow :
=> gain an eco advantage
=> you can snipe people with it (drop T2/gun/tml acu)

[Aulex]

Maybe increase the cost of the sera missile and the upgrade to reflect its superiority?