Re: Rolloff time for factories should be equal for all facti

[gnatinator]

How is this still an issue after over a year?

Is it simply due to a lack of time from patchers?

The fundamentals of this RTS are balanced around mass, energy and build power. These things need to be equalized across factions in order to maintain basic game balance.

[Aulex]

seraphim air factory was fixed for the most part, and there was some argument about how cybran have access to jester negating the roll off time

[BRNKoINSANITY]

This is an outdated video. The roll-off times have been balanced significantly in the last couple of patches. Try them out for yourself!

[gnatinator]

Not sure why BRNKoINSANITY decided to pro-actively lock the previous thread here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8271

As of the latest live patch, the rolloff times for Air Factories have not been addressed. See this for yourself in unit test mode (Method: Queue 10 engineers and unpause. New players: Use this by turning on cheat mode and using Alt-F2).

Engineer rolloff time on the Air Factory is still sloped unequally in this order: Seraphim, Aeon, UEF, Cybran.

[Reaper Zwei]

And? You make it sound as if this is some huge benefit. Is Seraphim the strongest faction right now? Is Cybran the weakest?

[gnatinator]

It's a big deal because everything in this game is balanced around mass, energy and build power.

Because of this quirk in the gameplay, other factions cannot go air for a first factory without being automatically disadvantaged to a great degree because economies snowball in this game.

I realize most new players aren't going to know this is going on when they randomly pick their faction and go air first, but it's not a good way to balance... And it's really difficult to convert high level RTS players from other games, or have them take competitive FA seriously, when such fundamental imbalances in the economies exist.

[ZLO_RD]

i just played shit ton of games where air 1rst -> bomber 1rst - wins (ofc 1rst bomber was from sera)

but i do not know what should be done, cybran penalty feels bit unfair, cause it all adds penalty for them for making air 1rst on maps like 4 corners (it is a ladder map now), and other maps where usually balance team tryes to shift balance away from aeon and sera

[Gorton]

I think that's more a map imbalance than anything else, ZLO.

[Reaper Zwei]

It's a big deal because everything in this game is balanced around mass, energy and build power.

Because of this quirk in the gameplay, other factions cannot go air for a first factory without being automatically disadvantaged to a great degree because economies snowball in this game.

Yes the trifecta and if everybody just eco'ed and didn't attack one another this maybe a problem but that isn't the case. Yes sera is strong on some maps but it isn't because of the roll off time. And yes sera first bomber can be strong but once again it isn't because of the roll off time.

I agree with you that it should be fixed if possible but I don't see it as of huge game breaking importance.

[Zock]

We wanted to address this in the last balancepatch. I actually wanted to swap sera/aeon and cybran/uef rolloff time instead of making them all equal (faction deversity..), giving cybran and uef a little early game advantage (in place of the additional disadvtange now, or equal numbers) on watermaps over the other factions that they can use without doubt. It would've need some look into if that advantage won't also shift the power too much into the favor of cyb/uef on land maps, but i think it would've been rather unlikley, and still allows to fall back to equal numbers if it turned out to be true.

Unfortunatly the rolloff time (except sera, which we nerfed slightly to decrease the difference at least, if we couldn't do anything else) is bound to the animation, and no one of us was able to do animations, and no one else could be found who would do it for us, so we couldn't change it.

But this was along with uef bomber buff, and a possible jester change (that didn't make it as it couldn't be proven usefull from testing, more testing might have shown more about if its a good or bad idea) the key concept to solve the water map problem a little.