Shield damage transfer rework

[zeroAPM]

After scurrying through the patches and forums i noticed the part about the 15% damage transfer on overlapping shields.

While i understand the "Why" this measure has been implemented (excessive turtling and shield-boat spam making the UEF navy de-facto invincible once 3 or 4 of them entered the playing field) i think it was implemented (with due respect) rather poorly.

The system in place effectively generates damage from nothing for every overlapping shield, other than being fairly inintuitive and contrived the spontaneous generation of value is something that, in my modest opinion, belong more to the world of economics than war (videogame and not).

Thus i propose this rework in the hope to still attain a situation where shields are not impenetrable while avoiding the "damage ex nihilo" scenario.

1: Regeneration speed and health reduced slightly for all shields
2: When hit, the shield transfer equal parts of the damage to overlapping shields, this damage is subtracted from the damage suffered by the shield receiving the hit
3: A shield can transfer 3,5% more damage the more shields overlap (eg: 1 shield=3,5% damage, 2 shields=7% damage, 3 shields= 10,5 damage and so on) with it with a cap of 35% damage at 10 overlapping shields (values might change).
4: In case a shield is overlapped by more than 10 shields the 35% transfered damage is still divided evenly among all of them
5: A shield can suffer two types of damage: By Hit and By Transfer.
6: A shield taking damage By Hit has it's regeneration stopped for 3 seconds as it is now
7: A shield taking damage By Transfer has it's regeneration halved (might change) for 3 seconds.[/list]


In this way there is no additional damage being generated while still allowing a stack of shields to be breached.

Examples:

Now, Non-AOE projectile (Percival), 3 UEF T3 overlapping shields
Percival damage=1600
T3 shield health= 15000hp, total of 45000hp for the entire array
Damage=1600 to first shield+15% (240) *2 to other shields=2080 damage total
Breakdown: first shield took 1600 damage, the two overlapping shields took 240 damage each

Now, AoE projectile (Demolisher), 3 UEF T3 overlapping shields
Demolisher damage=750 AoE=4
T3 shield health= 15000hp, total of 45000hp for the entire array
Damage=750*3 to all shields+15%(112.5)*3 to all shields+15%(112.5)*3 to all shields (since there are two shields that transfer damage to the third)=2925 damage
Breakdown: all shields took 975 damage

Revised method, Non-AOE projectile (Percival), 3 UEF T3 overlapping shields
Percival damage=1600
T3 shield health= 15000-X(see point 1)hp, total of 45000-X*3 (see point 1)hp for the entire array
Damage=1600-7%(112) to first shield+112 damage divided evenly between the two overlapping shields=1600 damage
Breakdown: First shield took 1488 damage, the two overlapping shields took 56 damage each

Revised method, AoE projectile (Demolisher), 3 UEF T3 overlapping shields
Demolisher damage=750 AoE=4
T3 shield health= 15000-X(see point 1)hp, total of 45000-X*3 (see point 1)hp for the entire array
Damage=(750-7%(52.5)*3 to all shields+3,5%(26.25)*3 to all shields due to transfer+3,5%(26.25)*3 to all shields due to transfer (as every shield is overlapped by two other shields)
Breakdown: All shields took 750 damage each

While this might appear to make shields stronger it is also used in conjunction with a global decrease of shield health and regeneration to balance things out.

This is meant to be a discussion of the aforementioned method and not as a immediate balance change as this is not balance patch period.

[pip]

Maybe I missed something, but the current situation seems to me (much) more intuitive and less complicated than the revised one you described.

The current principle is to nerf shields if you abuse stacking. That's the whole point of the "shield overlapping nerf". Your idea nerfs isolated shields (less HP and regeneration, etc), and buff several shields, almost forcing to have several to be decent. This is the exact opposite of what Ze Pilot designed in the first place. Shields were never deemed too strong by themselves, only several shields together. Your idea would promote shield stacking and I don't think Ze Pilot will ever let it happen.

[IceDreamer]

Now, AoE projectile (Demolisher), 3 UEF T3 overlapping shields
Demolisher damage=750 AoE=4
T3 shield health= 15000hp, total of 45000hp for the entire array
Damage=750*3 to all shields+15%(112.5)*3 to all shields+15%(112.5)*3 to all shields (since there are two shields that transfer damage to the third)=2925 damage
Breakdown: all shields took 975 damage

This is incorrect, since the impact now checks for damage dealt by the same instigator. In other words, a shield cannot take transfer damage from a projectile which has hit it directly. So it's actually only 750 damage per shield, plus 0 transfer since they were all hit directly.

If you can code your version, we can test it, but I A: Can't code it and B: Can't be bothered to code it... The current system works well enough, the numbers just need tweaking a bit perhaps.

[E8400-CV]

Maybe I missed something, but the current situation seems to me (much) more intuitive and less complicated than the revised one you described.

The current principle is to nerf shields if you abuse stacking.[...]

Like the current one works intuitive...

See also here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7563

With shields it's more or less a giant gamble as far as what shield takes what damage right know. I've yet to hear from someone who knows how it works.

[pip]

It's intuitive :
1) the more shields overlap the less efficient they are because some damages spread over them all
2) overlapping damages is reduced with each intermediary shield

So what is not intuitive is the amount of damages transfered because 15% is clear when you have 2 shields, it's not clear when you have 10 shields, with some overlapping with several and others with just one or 2, and some transfering only 15% of 15% because they don't overlap with the first hit shield.

Damage propagation is :
- shield A (hit) = 100 % damage
- Shield B (not hit but overlapping with A) = 15 % damage
- Shield C (not hit, not overlapping with A but overlapping with B) = 15% of 15% = 2.25%
- Shield D (not hit, not overlapping with A, nor B but overlapping with C) = 15% of 15% of 15% = 0.33% etc

But of course, in a base, you will have sometimes several A shields (because projectiles like Arty shots or TML have AOE and hit several shields at once), several B shields and several C shields overlapping differently with the whole, and an occasional D shield. The code does the math, but I'm sure you can figure out how it works in principle.

[IceDreamer]

- Shield C (not hit, not overlapping with A but overlapping with B) = 15% of 15% = 2.25%
- Shield D (not hit, not overlapping with A, nor B but overlapping with C) = 15% of 15% of 15% = 0.33% etc

Damage caused by transfer from one shield to another is marked and excluded from the code to prevent ricocheting internal amplification like this.

[Resin_Smoker]

Would be easier if the damage done was spread evenly to all the overlapping shields. This in effect would mean that a set of grouped shields would act as one large shield and that taking down one would likely take down all of them.

[pip]

- Shield C (not hit, not overlapping with A but overlapping with B) = 15% of 15% = 2.25%
- Shield D (not hit, not overlapping with A, nor B but overlapping with C) = 15% of 15% of 15% = 0.33% etc

Damage caused by transfer from one shield to another is marked and excluded from the code to prevent ricocheting internal amplification like this.

Read again what I wrote.

[zeroAPM]

Would be easier if the damage done was spread evenly to all the overlapping shields. This in effect would mean that a set of grouped shields would act as one large shield and that taking down one would likely take down all of them.

This was kinda the idea behind my reasoning.

Though now i see that, as pip said, it might make single shields excessively weak.

I don't know if anything in the OP is salvageable or not but maybe something inbetween could be found.

[IceDreamer]

- Shield C (not hit, not overlapping with A but overlapping with B) = 15% of 15% = 2.25%
- Shield D (not hit, not overlapping with A, nor B but overlapping with C) = 15% of 15% of 15% = 0.33% etc

Damage caused by transfer from one shield to another is marked and excluded from the code to prevent ricocheting internal amplification like this.

Read again what I wrote.

OK I read it. I still think what you said was out of date. Shield C does not overlap with the shield which took the hit, therefore it takes 0 damage. The 15% of 15% thing doesn't happen any more since Brute redid all the code.