t2 sub navy

[Circuit]

I check all the torpedoes defence for t2 navy.

here some numbers aeon vesper 2 projectiles every 7,8 sec

uef cooper 2 projectiles every 2,5 sec

cybran barracuda 2 projectiles every 20 sec...... what kind of def is that every 20 sec

any reason for that or can we balance this is some way

[Aulex]

It has personal stealth and stealth boats themselves have epic torp def

[ZLO_RD]

any reason for that or can we balance this is some way

the reason is that it is already pretty much balanced + faction divercity
obviosly UEF boat is very vunerable to any kind of damage, so it has best stats, Cybran sub have stealth, and aeon is just a sub, and they have some addictional hp

you will have to proove that something is imbalanced if you want to change anything, and that almost impossible to do
and i think values that are in database can be not always correct, you ave to test ingame situations
and for example if you take uef navy without shield boat, they will have pretty much worst navy, t2 desto have to torps, t2 boat have torps but dies super fast to any kind of direct fire veapons, and not actually rapes subs so hard

[Circuit]

thx for the explanation guys. In my last i use those t2 sub to protec my fleet from torpedoes from t2 seraphim destroyer. I was really surpise about the lack of topredoes def.

so what is the best sutiation to use them in a fleet (the baracuda)

[Apofenas]

T2 subs have no point in this game. UEF have cooper, which is very efficient against any kind of submarines. Cybran destroyers are equal in terms of torpedoes, but it has a very good AA and pretty good direct firing cannons; they also can walk on land and sometimes such fleet requires to get stealth boats which have a pretty good torp defence. Seraphim destroyer beats t2 subs mass by mass, but, again, it has direct fire cannons. Aeon destroyer even draws t3 sub if fight begins in close range.

My conclusion: cybran t2 subs may become usefull at early-mid game because of stealth when you support stealth torp com or in late game because of being quick and not taking direct damadge because of lack of shields in cybran fleet; aeon subs are pretty much waste of mass.

I wanted to make a discussion about point of t2 subs in this game in next balance period.

[IceDreamer]

TBH I think subs become more relevant at T3, when Destroyers are getting obliterated by Battleships and Neptune. The Subs can take those down easily.

[ColonelSheppard]

With Cybran you have the very strong destroyers in addition to the subs, Cooper can be atacked by surface weapons (they are an ANTI-Sub ship, that means they counter subs )
The aeon Vesper is, well, something you can spam if you dont want to bother with Aeon T2 navy and rather focus on something else.

[Mycen]

T2 subs have no point in this game.

Wat

something you can spam if you dont want to bother with ... T2 navy and rather focus on something else.

^^ This. Subs are great for spamming at a relatively low cost, without all the expense of a surface navy. On a map like White Fire, for example, they are great for supporting a teammate who is going hard naval without having to fully invest in a navy yourself. In order to counter subs your opponent is going to have to expend more resources on anti-naval, while still maintaining a powerful surface presence to counter your opponent's surface navy.

Yes, destroyers are, by and large, more effective at anti-submarine warfare than subs. But subs require specialized airplanes to attack them and cannot be damaged by standard defenses. Forget other navy, you can ward off destroyers with land units, hover units, point defenses, T2 artillery, gunships, bombers, torpedo bombers, even tac missiles and the ACU's overcharge! But you can only easily destroy attacking subs with torpedo launchers and torpedo bombers, both specialized/expensive units.

Even if destroyers can usually beat subs mass-for-mass, they also require careful attention and escorts (cruisers, stealth boats, hover flak, shield boats, etc.) to be really powerful. Subs don't require any of that, so they're better for combined air/naval operations than a surface navy would be. Force them to use only their destroyers' AA and torp DPS, and 'waste' the surface DPS. Then they have to build cruisers, which have NO way to combat subs, and you're on the way to winning.

If you're winning naval already then Subs probably aren't all that useful, but you can always ctrl+k and reclaim them.

[Plasma_Wolf]

You also have to take the type of torpedo defence into account. The UEF and Cybran defence is always a decoy. It takes any torpedo in the area away from ships. So 10 badly timed sub hunters may never be able to take out a couple of coopers. The Aeon and Seraphim defence is an anti-torpedo. It takes out one torpedo and that's it, you can just overwhelm this system by having more subs than your opponent.

It's just the same as with the TML and TMD systems, only this time the Aeon is decoy-based while the other three are projectile based. As of such, badly timed TML strikes (with many launchers) will never, ever break a single Aeon TMD. When you time it correctly, or just have a couple of cruisers/torrents/multiple MMLs, then you can break through (although it again becomes very hard if the Aeon TMD is well placed). The UEF/Cybran/Seraphim TMD can be overwhelmed by missiles. It's going to take some effort, but timing is less important here, certainly if there are only one or two TMDs in the enemy defence system.

[Mr-Smith]

lol Cybran subs are awesome they can hard counter sera navy, in larger numbers (5+) they counter even cybran t2 navy.
cybran t2 subs counter nearly everything mass to mass (except cooper , torp-acu but well) on smaller maps you may even counter t3 subs with them. sure destros are most time the better choice at all but sometimes when you dont want to care about sera destro micro than well just throw subs in