Offering a draw in ladder to cost no points.

[Sovietpride]

Currently, the system assumes that the higher rated player should always beat the lower rated one.
Therefore, this is absolute - if its a draw (i.e, both explode within X amount of time) then the lower rated has either outplayed/cheesed/OPd the higher rated one into a mutual KO instead of a straight kill. Thus, although there isn't as big a swing as it would be in the case that the lower rated player actually won, there is still a points shift - higher rated loses points, lower rated gains it.

That's the logic behind the system as it is ATM as i see it.


The thing is, if both players agree via the menu to have a draw, the above logic still holds true for some reason.
Can we have it so that if its an offered draw, not mutual explosion, that neither player has any points change?

[Sheeo]

Currently, the system assumes that the higher rated player should always beat the lower rated one.

It doesn't, no. That would be a very weird rating system.

Therefore, this is absolute - if its a draw (i.e, both explode within X amount of time) then the lower rated has either outplayed/cheesed/OPd the higher rated one into a mutual KO instead of a straight kill. Thus, although there isn't as big a swing as it would be in the case that the lower rated player actually won, there is still a points shift - higher rated loses points, lower rated gains it.

That's the logic behind the system as it is ATM as i see it.


The thing is, if both players agree via the menu to have a draw, the above logic still holds true for some reason.
Can we have it so that if its an offered draw, not mutual explosion, that neither player has any points change?

If a lower rated player beats a higher rated player, both ratings are adjusted according to the trueskill algorithm. See http://research.microsoft.com/apps/pubs/default.aspx?id=67956.


I still support this idea, even though it won't really make much difference.

[Petricpwnz]

It would make all the difference in the world. No idea why this isnt the way it works yet tbh. Right now can abuse this system to some extent with pretending to be afk and asking for a draw later.

[Sheeo]

It would make all the difference in the world.

Really? This will make you 600 rated all of a sudden?

No idea why this isnt the way it works yet tbh. Right now can abuse this system to some extent with pretending to be afk and asking for a draw later.

Just because something can be abused in some obscure way doesn't mean we should prioritize it. We have moderators to deal with abuse.

Artificially manipulating your rating in any way isn't allowed and it's not possible to eliminate all means of doing this.

[Petricpwnz]

It would make all the difference in the world.

Really? This will make you 600 rated all of a sudden?

No idea why this isnt the way it works yet tbh. Right now can abuse this system to some extent with pretending to be afk and asking for a draw later.

Just because something can be abused in some obscure way doesn't mean we should prioritize it. We have moderators to deal with abuse.

Artificially manipulating your rating in any way isn't allowed and it's not possible to eliminate all means of doing this.

gl hf proving that someone wasn't truly afk (even if its 5 times in a row). I didn't say we should prioritize anything here, I'm saying that this should be on a list of things to do to improve faf.

[briang]

Is it really that hard to code it in for draws by mutual agreement to be unranked games? I am no expert here but that seems pretty simple.

[Sheeo]

gl hf proving that someone wasn't truly afk (even if its 5 times in a row). I didn't say we should prioritize anything here, I'm saying that this should be on a list of things to do to improve faf.

If somebody has a significant enough proportion of draws in their games there would be fair evidence of such abuse.

Is it really that hard to code it in for draws by mutual agreement to be unranked games? I am no expert here but that seems pretty simple.

No, nobody said this was hard.

[briang]

So if it isn't hard, as a skilled coder I would guess that in the time you responded to this thread you could have already coded the few lines to make these unranked...

If you code this you no longer owe me a beer

[Sheeo]

So if it isn't hard, as a skilled coder I would guess that in the time you responded to this thread you could have already coded the few lines to make these unranked...

If you code this you no longer owe me a beer

"Not hard" does not imply "few lines of code" (neither does "hard" imply many).

What's required is a modification to the game so we send a distinct result when it's a mutually agreed draw in contrast to a normal draw. Server then needs to be modified to take this into account and unrank games accordingly.

It's not a priority for me, but I've made related issues so we're tracking progress on github: https://github.com/FAForever/server/issues/108

[keyser]

Do you see a lot of player abusing it ?
a part from Lame, who has been banned. I've encounter only a few of people asking for a draw after being afk in 800 games.. Maybe there is abuse, i just didn't see it already.