Not another Bomber Thread

[rockoe10]

Well you guessed it, yes this is about the bomber and its ability to drop multiple bombs by hovering in one place with micro (Que'd or not).

FIRST:
I don't want this thread to become another argument about whether it should or should not be allowed. This thread is for those who do NOT like the way it currently is and would like to do something about it rather than continue with this futile debate. NOW IS THE TIME FOR ACTION!

SECOND:
If you are someone who sees this thread and really feels the bomber should stay the way it is, STOP and come no further. This is for constructive input towards a change in the bomber's behavior and changes that will with out a doubt be needed afterwards.

Now on to the topic at hand.

About Me:
I am not an expert at modding nor am I a pro at any form of programming, but I love to dabble and find this game utterly amazing in its customization and user friendly Mods. I would like to continue playing this game as long as I can, making it better while keeping its core "Feel" intact.

Mission:
"The (Your) mission, if you choose to accept it" is to get rid of the hovering ability of the bomber AND drop bombs. This means that the bomber should NOT be affected in anyway regarding its ability to be micro'ed however; should not ALSO be able to drop its bombs while not moving.

Things to Consider:
Unintended and intended affects of this will cause some imbalances and need to be addressed. Most obvious is the fact that the bomber thus far has been balanced around its ability to be micro'ed and drop multiple bombs. Therefore after this is removed, the bomber will need a buff without making it overpowered mid game.

Side Notes:
I know that some modders out there have already been working on some ideas and have working mods out there. Please, if you feel so kind, share those ideas with the community so that maybe we can all test together and come up with a working change.

Remember, this is exactly how the "engie" mod started out. It too had many people against it and it just took some people to go out there and make a mod that turned out to work very well.

I am willing to help where I can when it comes to the actual modding (again, I'm not that good at that kind of stuff) and I am ABSOLUTELY willing to join in testing games for balancing issues. Please find me on the FAF lobby and invite me to a game. You'll find me under as ConditionZero

[ZLO_RD]

i am ok with hovering, only annoying part is that they can drop bombs directly bottom and it is very hard to dodge then, but Cybran/UEF bombers when drop directly bottom just toss bombs around and can't even kill engyneer most of the time that way =\

i would also like to just remove radars from bombers, like it was in vanilla, but no one likes that idea (in vanilla they could not even track units in fog of war so they loose track of unit that they failed to kill with 1rst pass sometimes, so you always have to have scouts, and need some addictional micro just to keep unit in range of scout's radar/visio range)

Edit also you need to know, that there were alot of changes to balance game to make bombers less effective, like t1 static aa buff (cost, build time, hp reduced on ~25% but dps is same)

[IceDreamer]

OK so I'll set out where I stand...

Hovering Bombers feels fundamentally wrong to me. Call it OCD, call it letting my feelings run me, whatever, it feels wrong. The ability to hover hover something and drop multiple bombs needs to go.

However... First Bomber is not OP, even now, and should remain a viable strategy, however annoying you might find it. Also, I like the way you can slow the Bomber down several seconds from the target to scout for the best target with Radar, and then hit it.

Suggestions - One or another, not all together

1: Bomber will not drop if AirSpeed < X

Advantages - Leaves in place the ability to scout using Radar for a better target, providing you leave some room to accelerate.
Disadvantages - Hard to code. May still allow double bombing (Triple + will be totally out) but I am OK with this. The code may cause bugs with the normal drop sequence, which is buggy enough as it is :/

2: Increase reload time to 8 seconds

Advantages - Incredibly easy to code, leaves in place scouting for target, the best players will still be able to multibomb, but there is more time to get a counter running and it will take a huge amount of input to pull off, taking valuable APM from elsewhere for an extended period of time.
Disadvantages - Potentially eliminates Bomber First as a strategy, though it can be brought back with subsequent buffs. Some people will still complain that it is possible.

3: Remove Radar

Advantages - Incredibly easy to code. Will make hover bombing the correct targets much, much trickier, as you have to find them.
Disadvantages - Severely nerfs First Bomber as a Strategy. Prevents you being able to scout for targets before committing.

[Mad`Mozart]

ColonelSheppard is raging hardcore about this thread!
http://nooooooooooooooo.com/

[IceDreamer]

He can go screw himself. If this group comes up with a solution which is balanced, allows first Bomber to stay, allows micro to differentiate skill as it does now, allows high risk/reward micro to stick around, gets rid of new player's concerns, and generally is favourable in every imaginable way to the present, he's just have to go with it.

If not, it stays the way it is, and my OCD Wrongometer just has to cope. Since the last patch Bomber micro has become notably harder anyway, so it's really not too big a problem gameplay-wise, not IMO at least.

[dstojkov]

Hi ,

I saw some of those micoed bomber in some replays. And when I remember right this was not possible before the ballistic script used for the bomber accuracy. Well you could hover yes but drop bomb in pin point precision under the bomber was not possible before


Regards

[RK4000]

Basically, what the first post in this thread says to me is (between the lines):

FIRST: This thread does NOT allow arguments FOR hover bombing, because we have already established that it needs to be changed, and is wrong.

SECOND: Basically confirming the fact that, out of NOWHERE, we have already established that the bomber is supposed to change?

Excuse me, last time I checked it was still debatable whether the bomber micro was OK and should stay or whether it should not? As far as I see it, this thread just tries to limit the input from those that want the bomber micro to stay by saying "This thread is for constructive inputs". Well, the input of "the bomber should stay the same" is no less constructive than an input to change it in order to remove the micro.

...Unless you are saying someone else's opinion (that is different) is worth less?

[Dragonfire]

Btw. I found some new solutions:

1. Rename Bomber to Hover Bomber and add a tooltipp how to hover
Advantages - easy to code
Disadvantages - hover bombers still ingame

2. remove Bombers
Advantages - no more threads about hover bomber and no hover bombers, easy to code
Disadvantages - we must rebalance the air (Jester for everyone?)

[Sulo]

Btw. I found some new solutions:

1. Rename Bomber to Hover Bomber and add a tooltipp how to hover
Advantages - easy to code
Disadvantages - hover bombers still ingame

2. remove Bombers
Advantages - no more threads about hover bomber and no hover bombers, easy to code
Disadvantages - we must rebalance the air (Jester for everyone?)

Or make bombers VTOLs so they can fly like regular plane to destination and then you could change it to hover mode using button (like AA and ground fire mode on cybran T1 mobile AA or their cruiser).

Changing to hover mode would disable its ability to drop bombs, instead it would use missiles or guns.
We could then increase reload on bomb to almost "whatever-it-takes-to-make-the-pass" so people couldnt use hover bombing.

[ColonelSheppard]

1. Rename Bomber to Hover Bomber and add a tooltipp how to hover
Advantages - easy to code
Disadvantages - hover bombers still ingame

+1