Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

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Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby Franck83 » 31 Dec 2017, 13:09

Hi All,

I'm thinking about adding some micro combat fight solutions inspired by true air fights. But i'm entering in the area of 3D supcom animations that i have no experience.

Some have more experience to say if this kind of stuff can be realized ?

Imagine you have combat fight powers (with keyb shortcuts) to trigger specifics aircraft figures :

Low Yo-Yo :
he low Yo-Yo is one of the most useful maneuvers, which sacrifices altitude for an instantaneous increase in speed. This maneuver is accomplished by rolling with the nose low into the turn, and dropping into a steeper slice turn. By utilizing some energy that was stored in the vertical plane, the attacker can quickly decrease range and improve the angle of the attack, literally cutting the corner on the opponent's turn. The pilot then pulls back on the stick, climbing back to the defender's height. This helps slow the aircraft and prevents an overshoot, while placing the energy back into altitude. A defender spotting this maneuver may try to take advantage of the increase in AOT by tightening the turn in order to force an overshoot. The low Yo-Yo is often followed by a high Yo-Yo, to help prevent an overshoot, or several small low Yo-Yos can be used instead of one large maneuver.

Image


High Yo-Yo :
The high Yo-Yo is a very effective maneuver, and very difficult to counter. The maneuver is used to slow the approach of a fast moving attacker while conserving the airspeed energy. The maneuver is performed by reducing the angle at which the aircraft is banking during a turn, and pulling back on the stick, bringing the fighter up into a new plane of travel. The attacker then rolls into a steeper pitch turn, climbing above the defender. The trade-off between airspeed and altitude provides the fighter with a burst of increased maneuverability. This allows the attacker to make a smaller turn, correcting an overshoot, and to pull in behind the defender. Then, by returning to the defenders plane, the attacker restores the lost speed while maintaining energy.

Image


Lag Displacement Roll
A lag displacement roll, also called a "lag roll", is a maneuver used to reduce the angle off tail by bringing the attacker from lead pursuit to pure, or even lag pursuit. The maneuver is performed by rolling up and away from the turn, then, when the aircraft's lift vector is aligned with the defender, pulling back on the stick, bringing the fighter back into the turn. This maneuver helps prevent an overshoot caused by the high AOT of lead pursuit, and can also be used to increase the distance between aircraft.

Image


High-G Barrel Roll
A high-g barrel roll is a combination of a loop and a snap roll. A high g barrel roll is a last-ditch defensive maneuver, performed when the attacker has achieved a suitable guns solution, in order to cause an overshoot. The high-g barrel roll is a violent maneuver which is performed much more aggressively than a normal barrel roll. Range is critical to the success of the roll, and the defender will usually turn very hard, or employ other measures to draw the opponent very close before performing the roll. The roll is executed by applying hard back-stick pressure, creating the high g-forces, and adding hard rudder input to assist the ailerons in rolling the fighter. A high-g barrel roll can be performed "over-the-top", or it can be performed "underneath", which is accomplished by rolling upside-down and beginning the maneuver from the inverted position. The high-g barrel roll is an energy-depleting maneuver that rarely causes the attacker to fly out in front, but usually will result in a flight path overshoot, a flat scissors, or, at the very least, will temporarily disrupt the attacker's aim.

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Rolling Scissors

Rolling scissors, also called vertical scissors, tend to happen after a high-speed overshoot from above. The defender reverses into a vertical climb and into a barrel roll over the top, forcing the attacker to attempt to follow. The advantage lies in the aircraft that can pull its nose through the top or bottom of the turn faster. In battles with aircraft that have a thrust-to-weight ratio of less than one the aircraft will quickly lose altitude, and crashing into the ground becomes a possibility.[50] According to author Mike Spick, "Disengagement from a vertical rolling scissors is best made with a split-s and a lot of hope."

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Defensive Spiral

A defender that fails to outmaneuver the attacker can quickly become "out of airspeed and ideas". The defensive spiral is a maneuver used by the defender when the kinetic energy becomes depleted and other last-ditch maneuvers can not successfully be implemented. The maneuver consists of dropping the nose low during the turn and going into a spiral dive, using gravity to supply the energy needed to continue evasive action. The defensive spiral becomes a rolling scissors performed straight down. The defender's goal is to stay out of phase with the attacker until the ground is dangerously close. The advantage usually goes to the aircraft that can decelerate quicker, and the defender will often cut the power and extend the speedbrakes in an effort to force an overshoot. If this attempt is unsuccessful, the defender will usually pull out of the dive at the last possible second, hoping to cause the attacker to crash into the ground.

Image

Much more here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers

If this kind of stuff can be realized this may upgrade micro combat fight to a huge level of epicness. Imagine the fun of the replays !
Last edited by Franck83 on 31 Dec 2017, 13:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby Franck83 » 31 Dec 2017, 13:15

Alliance of Heroes Mod is out ! Try it ! It's in the Mod Vault !
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Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby JoonasTo » 31 Dec 2017, 15:48

My first thought was that it can but also that there's a reason why the air-altitude's are relatively static and will probably mess with a bunch of other stuff. Might be a hell of a lot more work in places you wouldn't expect. ^^

First you will need to touch the air unit physic values because their agility is next to none(turn speed at least, this is not technically necessary but without it, the maneuvers will take them all over the map and they will fly to places you really don't want them to be.) After that it becomes a question of can we give air units height coordinates for movement in addition to the horizontal ones.


PS. The Cobra isn't really a combat maneuver, it's more of a show of the plane's capabilities.
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Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby Franck83 » 31 Dec 2017, 16:40

Ty JoonasTo for your reply.

Indeed, it's not an easy task

There are specific aircraft values in bp (here UEF ASF) with all the values needed.

Image


When importing UEF ASF model to blender, we can see that it is rigged with armature. But there are no animation.

Image

It should be possible to release simple rotation animations as the Pugachev's cobra (or a dodging rotating on itself and at the same time turn off on impact projectile collision) . But Bp values cannot be modified in real time.

The only way we can do something for what i know is by changing bp in realtime and use some simple animations.

Is it possible to release an instant bp switching for 5s and go back to original bp ?
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Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby speed2 » 31 Dec 2017, 16:45

No, this is not possible. Engine and stuff.
You also can't change blueprints after they are loaded.
Spoiler: show
You can change them if cheats are enabled, but the change applies only to new units. And if you do too many changes the game can crash. It's just for some debugging to test some different values and not to be used in normal games.
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Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby JoonasTo » 31 Dec 2017, 17:06

Perhaps we could create dummy targets(this seems like a horribly inefficient way to go at it) around the ASF to force it to pull up/down since it is already capable of doing altitude switching but the we'd somehow have to block the trailing ASF from easily following. I don't know of a good way to do this. Perhaps someone(well kinda your area Franck xD) knows if there is a way to make units nontargettable with statuses?

UI mod can already achieve the same effect regarding slowing down and making tight turns btw. It won't look amazing or change altitudes but you can do this yourself with manual micro as well where you slow/stop the ASF in place(Pugachev's cobra) by giving it repeated movement orders on the spot. Similarly you can achieve tight turns with spamming movement orders and/or stop command.
These hold the problem that no airspeed is preserved so they're not "real" combat maneuvers as such but for gameplay purposes they're very useful and every player above a certain rating (should) know these.
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Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby Exotic_Retard » 31 Dec 2017, 17:09

one reason why it doesnt quite make sense for such moves in supcom is that unlike real planes, air in faf can shoot in a wide cone around itself and so doesnt need to point directly at the enemy. Interestingly modern fighters do that with missiles too now.

what you want to do should be possible via scripts:
you can create the animator and run it on demand that way, just call the function when needed, and you can also toggle the collisions and such via scripts, indeed most projectiles do exactly that.

as speed said, you cant modify blueprints once they have been registered. thats just life. but you can change a lot of the values on the fly afterwards. not all though. pretty sure its almost none of the ones shown in the picture.
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Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby Franck83 » 31 Dec 2017, 17:22

Very interesting, ty all for your replies.

This affects should work

Image


By animator, exo, you mean a .sca file ?

So what we can do is adding a dodge bonus when executing the .sca figure, so by toggling collision, it is possible to create a % chance to miss the target. So during the figure, the missile can simply pass thru the aircraft with aesthetics visual.

I need to try all of this, but i suppose .sca animations should covert a wide coordonate range, and permit to divert from original coordonates. I hope the collision box will follow the aircraft moves.
Last edited by Franck83 on 31 Dec 2017, 17:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby Franck83 » 31 Dec 2017, 17:28

JoonasTo wrote:Perhaps we could create dummy targets(this seems like a horribly inefficient way to go at it) around the ASF to force it to pull up/down since it is already capable of doing altitude switching but the we'd somehow have to block the trailing ASF from easily following. I don't know of a good way to do this. Perhaps someone(well kinda your area Franck xD) knows if there is a way to make units nontargettable with statuses?


Yes, you can toggle off the collision so the missile pass thru the unit !
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Re: Aircrafts Maneuvers. Epic micro fight options

Postby Franck83 » 31 Dec 2017, 18:14

Finally did the animation for UEF ASF.

Just have to look how to trigger and play it in supcom with modifying speed, turn rate and acc.

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