Upgrading mexes

[Flynn]

I made another thread on this but it got into the precise technicalities and details of how much mass upgrading mexes unassisted uses compared to assisted so I will start a new one.

Just had a game today where the guy had a bigger eco than me at the end but it didn't seem to affect his map control. When I confronted him on it, he says he "upgraded them one at a time, unassisted". This is the least effective method, however in practice it seems very convenient. Assisting mexes stalls you're eco, upgrading them unassisted is a much smaller drain on eco.

I feel like if I upgraded my mexes unassisted like I used to do then I could have a much better eco, instead of having a team of engineers going around assisting them stalling my economy. I know pros say that assisting is better but it seems strange to me because you really have to watch yourself when assisting the mexes with engineers and you have to plan a lot more due to the economic stall that it causes.

[ZLO_RD]

"upgraded them one at a time, unassisted". This is the least effective method, however in practice it seems very convenient. Assisting mexes stalls you're eco, upgrading them unassisted is a much smaller drain on eco.

no no, upgraiding them once in a time unassisted it totally fine
what is not fine is when you have to much mass and you make 2 or many mex upgraides at once, uhm... actually it is fine too, if that is your strategic choice is to eco and you just do not have engineers in that area, it will be fine but just not very efficient.

so if some one was just upgraiding mexes one at a time unassisted he was not really ecoing much
and that advice about assisting mexes refering to most efficient way to eco, and obviusly in that case guy was not ecoing much and when you eco alot you have alot of mass, and you want put all that mass in t2 mexes and then into storages and then into t3 mexes... but in case of real game you do not have much spare mass to use it on upgraiding mexes, so unassisted mex can be fine and efficient, no need to walk with engy, no need for extra engy as well

and most efficient way to upgraide mexes one at the time without stalling and without having much mass and power in storage i guess...

[ZLO_RD]

I also think it is possible to eco efficiently without caping all your t2 mexes with storages, and instead you cap one t2 mex and then upgraide it to t3

thing is that you do not need to move around alot, also when you assist t3 mex it takes ton of mass fast, so you can put all your mass into eco with less engineers, and 1 engyneer is like 52 mass, and if you use regular method you may need like 6 times more engineers at 1rst

but then you will have problem of having to much mass and not enought t1 engies, so best choice to makes stuff that has low mass/build time ratio, like experimentals... so that way of ecoing works not on many maps, and not sure about efficiency of that
Maybe it is just easyer to balance eco like that... not sure

[Flynn]

Very helpful replies ZLO. I will add upgrading mexes unassisted back into my repertoire then. I also like you're idea about capping one T2 and then taking it to T3 rather than capping off all the T2s first. Indeed when people talk in ideal circumstances (upgrading all mexes to T2 assisting with engies, then cap, then to T3) they often aren't considering the logistical problems that causes with having to move the engineers around all the mexes to do it.

[Hascins]

Can you provide the replay of that game flynn?

[ax0lotl]

Can you provide the replay of that game

2916506-ax0lotl.fafreplay

(39.24 KiB) Downloaded 57 times

Too bad the christmas gifts do not show in the replay.

I started a mex upgrade at 3:30 because I was about to waste mass. Actually that upgrade took long, because later I stalled mass. (Should have paused the mex upgrade to let the ACU finish the factory first, next to other reclaim, to restart upgrade afterwards.) Once I have a T2 mex, I like to get another one once in a while.

I had more reclaim, which made a difference.

[Hascins]

I think you didn't build enough power...at arround 5:30 you start to stall...then ax0lotl could deni your expansion to the left. then you started to masstall....Ax0 did have excess power and used it for t2 mexupgrade...i think thats not the best option in the beginning...maybe he should get expansions faster first instead of pushing mexupgrade...but nevertheless i think: if you live on the edge (regarding power) you should use the mass which is invested into units at least to protect your expansioning engis. you started the left expansion at about min 8:30.

Conclusion:
It's the slow expansion and massstall what did cost you the game (actually it was a draw right?)...And the ACU upgrade (out of position) when you didnt had the power for it!