Looking for advice as returing casual FA players

[Kasai]

Here's the scenario:

A group of friends and I have recently started playing on FAF after a very extended break. Prior to this, we only ever played what I believe was the unofficial fan patch (maybe 3603 but i don't remember) using programs like tungle or other lan emulators. A couple weeks ago, a few other buddies noticed the steam sale for the game and picked it up and we started playing again, using the FAF client and current patches. The problem is that, while none of us were any better than mediocre before, we were at least able to use the wiki and other readily available resource to help newer members of the group get acquainted to various unit differences and we have enough experience to at least give a general amount of advice about certain aspects of the game.

What I'm looking for, and what would be amazingly helpful, would be two main things:

Keep in mind that we play almost exclusively 3v3 or bigger games. Maybe the occasional phantomx when we don't have even teams but we don't ever play 1v1s. In addition, mainly due to inexperience, there is little in the form of early aggression, so discussion of early tech units can be gone into in less detail.

1) A very general collection of major changes between the patch we were playing on and the current release. I've looked around a bit but the problem with older forum posts is that it's hard to tell what is relevant at all, as it seems that there have been a few decently extensive balance patches within the last 6 months or so. Obviously not every change is necessary, I'm mainly looking for fundamental changes to the way the game plays; I've looked through the patch notes but a lot of the number changes are a little above my head regarding the intention and/or the effect of the change in question.


2) With handful of new people being introduced into our games, I've realized that we aren't very well equipped at offering explanations regarding the main differences between the factions. This is partially due to a general lack of experience, as none of us are anything beyond a casual player, but also stems somewhat from the changes since we all played. If someone could write up a quick pros/cons list and maybe something along the lines of "generally n faction is better at navy than x, y, or z." it would be really helpful. As much as we are enjoying the game, we aren't offered a huge amount of time to play so it can be hard to get a detailed feel for each faction. I'm mainly looking for a starting point.

I know I'm asking a lot so any help is appreciated.

[ZaZen]

I think this is still fairly relevant http://supcom.wikia.com/wiki/How_to_build_an_effective_army

Missing on there is Cybran Navy, Cybran Navy are considered very strong at t2 as the Salem has the option to walk on land. However cybran is very weak at t3 and has no ship t2 or t3 capable of long range bombardment.
Looking at the unit data base http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/ at things like ranges and cybran has almost half the range of say a UEF cruiser.

Most of the balance patching has tweaked things like randomness and speeds which dont really alter faction diversity that much. I think one of the biggest changes has been with the Cybran experimental Scathis which has had its range drastically reduced and the Aeon t3 bot the Harbinger can now reclaim from the battle field.
And ACU explosions used to do 4000? damage they now do 2500. So less draws.
And i believe you used to start with 5000 power but now you only start with 4000 power so power storage is needed to use overcharge.

I think if you and your friends read the wiki page i linked at the top you would be more clued up than many player.

I am sure more players will add more.

[gnatinator]

Cybran is under powered in the current meta after you get above 1000 points. As your opponents get better, the advantages of stealth are dissolved. You're better off choosing another faction.

On the other hand it's a good faction for training yourself by giving your opponent a handicap. General Rule: If one has been beaten by a Cybran, one has been outplayed.

[Gorton]

^ I find that very untrue. Most of the top players are using cybran : I consider it slightly overpowered.

[sasin]

oops

[sasin]

Hey Kasai,

Welcome to the community! My friends and I had a very similar return to FA about 18 months ago and haven't looked back. Like you, we play pretty much exclusively 3v3 or 4v4 games, although if only 2 of us are around we dabble with 2v2 as well. We started off struggling big time and were surprised to ever win a game... we were around 600 ranking. Then, I got some help from a more experience player and tried to pass along his wisdom to my friends and we steadily improved. Now, I'm 1400 and my buddies are 1100. So, I have some experience trying to get newer players up to speed for relatively casual FAF. First, I'll try to answer your two questions.

1.) The biggest change by far is the move to engy mod.

PRE ENGY MOD: When you were at tech 1, you could build a lot of factories to spam units. However, as you teched up, it was increasingly a good idea to just have one t2 or t3 factory surrounded by as many engineers as you could fit. If you're mathematically inclined, this is because engineers had a higher build power/mass ratio than t2 factories. If you're not so inclined, then just trust me that you were better off surrounding a higher tech factory with engineers than you would be building multiple high tech factories. This led to a situation where late game everyone would have one factory with hundreds of engies, which was counterintuitive, hurt the game performance, and just made it less dynamic than the t1 phase. To alleviate that effect while changing as little else as possible, FAF moved to...

ENGY MOD: Now, you tech up a factory the same way you did before, and it costs the same as before. Instead of being called a t2 factory, this is now called your t2 factory HQ. At this point, you have a new building option available, a regular t2 factory. This one is cheaper, like t1 engie cheap. So, the initial t2 upgrade still costs the same as always, but after you've upgraded one factory to t2, you can spam more factories (make sure you build the one that doesn't say HQ on it) for less mass. Consequently, when you go to t2 you no longer have to surround 1 factory with engies. It's equally cost effective to build more t2 factories. Like I said though, be sure that your first factory is upgraded to a "t2 land factory HQ", while the others should be "t2 land factory."

Other than that, I believe most of the changes center around unit rebalancing. Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, though... it's hard to remember what the game used to be like.

2.) I'd recommend starting with maps that are only land and air to make it a little more manageable to start with unless you are attached to navy. If you must do navy, t2 navy is generally a pretty important level. I'd recommend seraphim because they are the easiest to play imho, at t2 they only have 2 units. Destroyer kills other ships, and the cruiser kills air and bombards bases. Pretty straightforward. The other factions have more nuance in their navy game. At t3, they get t3 subhunters, which are amazing against all other navy and even air when you surface them. But really start with land maps. Getting back on track... you were asking about factions.

When I was new I also was looking for general differences between the factions, and they're kind of hard to come by. I think at this point, especially at a casual level, there is no consensus about which factions are best at which things, although I'm sure everyone has their opinions. There are subtle ways in which each faction plays differently in each arena of combat (although Aeon is a very popular choice from an air spot, but I'd say on a smaller map cybran is a very good choice as well and you can't really go wrong with any). Anyways, in theory, cybran favors more aggression, sera is a very solid, balanced faction with less variety, Aeon is sort of more micro intensive but really good when done right, and UEF uh... has t3 point defense and percivals?

Especially in lower ranked games, t2 point defense are kind of a big deal. A lot of people will rush them.

Land

t1 tank: This unit is the backbone of early game on most maps. Aeon has a really fragile tank that has extra range relative to other tanks. It can be really effective but you have to kite. Cybran has a very fast, agile bot/tank, the mantis. It is great for run arounds etc. The other two are pretty bland. On early aggression maps, your preference here plays a big role in which faction you should pick.

t1 arty: Sera's is great but slightly more expensive. Cybran's stuns which can be very good. Aeon has best damage but very pinpoint, good for buildings, UEF has a front loaded spread attack.

t2 tank: All of the factions are pretty equal at this point, imho. Sera's Illshovah is still my favorite, but the others have been buffed in general.

t2 kite bot: Cybran and UEF have hoplites and mongooses respectively, which are both weak bots with extra range. They can be very effective if you kite but suck if you don't.

t2: stealth/shields: cybran gets t2 stealth bots which stealth nearby allied units. Aeon and UEF have shields. These greatly improve your units effectiveness at t2.

t3 Bot: UEF and Cybran have Percivals and Bricks respectively. They're big, slow, tough, and powerful. They excel against experimentals and other t3 bots, but percivals in particular struggle against low tier units. In a high tier battle, make sure you build these two units (armoured assault bots) and not their cheaper units, the titan and loyalist.

The aeon harbinger is pretty balanced, mobile, and solid, but loses heads up against bricks or percivals. It's faster etc. which is nice though. The sera othum is pretty tough but it doesn't have the range to compete with the percival or brick.


Air

Alright, I'm losing steam but I'll mention a few things about air. t1 bombers are generally cost ineffective unless you know how to micro them pretty well. I'd stay away for a while. At t2, aeon get suicide missles and dedicated t2 fighters, while the other factions have fighter/bombers that suck as fighters but are pretty good as bombers.

If you want to win a lot of games, just build the cybran fighter bomber en masse and kill all the commanders.

Alright, I really need to actually do my job and this is taking forever to write. Hopefully it's helpful and I'm sorry if it's a little all over the place, I don't really have time to edit. If you want more information you're welcome to PM me... I have some fun strategies for 3v3 etc. and I can answer questions. Good luck!

[Kasai]

Thanks for the responses guys and thanks for the super in-depth write up sasin. I'll definitely direct our little group to both that wiki and this forum topic for some good info.

Edit: One thing I forgot to ask in the first post:

I've noticed that shields seem a LOT less effective when dealing with any sort of arty fire. I noticed some changes in the patch notes discussing shared damage but the change I saw seemed to reduce the amount of damage shared (from 50% to 15% or something similar). I'm not sure if I missed an earlier patch that did something else to the shields but I'm mainly wondering what the root cause of this change is or if it has any other major repercussions.

[ColonelSheppard]

It was done to nerf turteling/shieldstacking (50% pass for mobile shields 15% for static shield)

It ultimately buffs arty and MML and nerfs aeon navy and shieldspam to protect experimentals.

[sasin]

Thanks for the responses guys and thanks for the super in-depth write up sasin. I'll definitely direct our little group to both that wiki and this forum topic for some good info.

Edit: One thing I forgot to ask in the first post:

I've noticed that shields seem a LOT less effective when dealing with any sort of arty fire. I noticed some changes in the patch notes discussing shared damage but the change I saw seemed to reduce the amount of damage shared (from 50% to 15% or something similar). I'm not sure if I missed an earlier patch that did something else to the shields but I'm mainly wondering what the root cause of this change is or if it has any other major repercussions.

No problem. It's just a question that reminded me of me back in the day so felt compelled to be helpful.

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=3347&hilit=differences+between+factions

To add a little more detail to Sheppard's answer and answer your question a little more, there was an earlier patch that did make it so shields share damage because they wanted to nerf shield stacking. The patch that you are referring to was a decision to then buff shield stacking back a little bit. It's hard to find information about exactly how these things work and amusingly for the longest time after the shield damage sharing thing was implemented there was a glitch that caused things under stacked shields to take extra damage and no one noticed. Eventually, someone had their acu under 2 shields killed by an experimental bomber shell and realized something was up.

Anyways, the basic gist, as far as I understand it, is that when a shield's generator is under the bubble produced by another shield, then those shields share some damage. If two shields have touching bubbles but the generators are not under each other, they do not share damage. So, if you have a structure or acu that you really want to protect, I believe the best way to do so is build multiple shields that all cover that unit/structure but don't cover each other's generators. Does that make sense?

[Kasai]

One quick question regarding the T4 balance of the factions.

At least in our games, since, other than one or two people, we are generally not very aggressive early, a lot of games are focused at least somewhat around one team member per side quick teching and getting a fast experimental up.

Obviously, the fatboy doesn't really play the same role as the other assault bot exps and given the right circumstances it can level a base with incredible quickness, but I often feel that it doesn't pack the same oomph as the other factions. Granted, I'm not at all at a level of skill that would allow for me to make any serious claims about actual balance, but I'm mainly wondering if, given a position of rushing a quick experimental, would another faction be more worth while than UEF? Or is it simply a case of not providing enough support for the fatboy?