SCU vs. T3 bot

[sasin]

Hey all,

I had a question about the SCU compared to a t3 bot. In particular, I am looking at the othuum and the seraphim SCU.

The othuum cost 840 mass, has 6700 health, and 275 dps at range 0-25.

The SCU costs 2050 mass, has 15500 health, and 400 dps at range 0-25.

The SCU regenerates health, generates mass and energy, and can be upgraded. Why is it not a significantly better deal than the othuum?

[ZaphodX]

Thaam is 4x quicker to build? Slightly cheaper + easier to get a t3 fac than a quantum gateway.

[Ato0theJ]

I think you might have the wrong numbers on the Othuum unless if the unit database is not up to date. See http://faforever.com/faf/unitsDB/unit.p ... 04,XSL0303

Essentially, due to it's capabilities, it is better. But not so much so to justify the extra 3000 mass you would spend on a factory. If you only had t2 land, but t3 air and navy, I would say it is worth it to build sACUs instead of Othuums.

[ColonelSheppard]

its an acient myth why SACUs are so less built, if you find SACUs good dont let yourself be distracted by the current meta, just use them and other will follow

[Kurbain]

Hm, I consider these the reasons why sACUs are rarely build:

1. Not part of the current metagame. People got used to playing without them and it will be difficult to get them into the metagame since FAF is a small community and there won't be many people constantly experimenting and evolving the metagame with new tactics. sACUs would be used a lot more if somebody found a tactic that makes them really powerful, but it's unlikely that it will be found. Even in really popular games like Starcraft 2 and Street Fighter 4, which are played by millions, players find new, very efficient tactics years after launch.

2. Lazyness. It's easier to let your T3 factory build more T3 spam than switch to sACUs.

3. There are units that can do anything it does better for less cost. Engineers offer more build power for less and T3 bots offer more fire power for less. Obviously their advantage is the versatility, but a player with good management probably doesn't need it.

4. Takes too long to build.

5. Not part of the natural progression. A special building is required just for them which isn't necessary for anything else and they fall between T3 and experimentals.

[sasin]

Thanks for the help guys! I really do appreciate it.

Thanks Zaphod, and your casts are my favorite by the way, nice work!

Ato0theJ, aren't the Othuum numbers you just linked me to actually a little worse (I can't add DPSes...) but mostly the same as mine? And, yeah, what you said makes a lot of sense to me. The mass investment for the QG would make them less cost-effective, I'd agree. I like your suggestion.

Thanks again, Sheppard! You answer like all my questions on here and I appreciate it! I'll try to use them, but unfortunately I suck too much to win whatever units I use so I don't think anyone will follow (or maybe that's fortunately?).

Kurbain, I hear you on 1,2, 4, and 5. 3 though I think is what I'm confused about/kind of disputing. They are much more fighting ability/mass efficient than experimentals, and while they aren't more fighting/mass efficient than say, percies, they aren't far behind, they have a ton of HP regeneration, and it's better to concentrate your mass, right? That's without versatility. The fact that they can then throw down a pd on the front line really quickly if you have some en masse and maybe have one reclaim stuff while others push on... it just feels like they can be really awesome. Especially UEF... then Aeon. The Engie mod will probably make them less-so, unfortunately, but whatever.

I think I'm convinced enough to give it a go, and like Sheppard suggested, try my best and see what happens.

[Kurbain]

I'm not sure if sACUs are more efficient than experimentals, but even if they are, they take a lot longer to build relative to their power and due to their versatility they will require more micromanagement + reasons 1,2 and 5 still apply.

I could totally imagine them being more useful than T3 bots or experimentals, especially if their overcharge is used regularly, but they are just too much of a hassle and it will require lots of testing since they haven't been used much so far.