The Mirror Problem

[FtXCommando]

If you’re incapable of microing aurora and/or incapable of realizing a map has a bias for one faction that you can then veto, you aren’t the good player I’m looking for.

Do I really need to prove that strategic asymmetry leads to a better viewer experience? This doesn’t harm intelligent yet capable players at all. They ban a dominant faction, they pick the faction they feel is next best. If that still results in a mirror then so be it. If it doesn’t, then that’s also good. If you play a dude that only plays a singular faction, you take the tradeoff decision on whether to ban his dominant faction or the map’s. Ultimately, it’s a metagame that enhances the experience for both casters and players and rewards an in-depth knowledge on players as well as maps.

[keyser]

Please don't try to pretend that this side effect "you take the tradeoff decision on whether to ban his dominant faction or the map’s" is something "positive" for your system.
What you propose is to rig the game before it start, nothing else.

"If you’re incapable of microing aurora and/or incapable of realizing a map has a bias for one faction that you can then veto, you aren’t the good player I’m looking for. "
Forcing all top players to fit the same mold is really the worst idea you can offer to create gameplay diversity.

[Nexus_of_Reality]

So why exactly does all this matter? I’ve never loaded up a replay and thought “oh boy a non-mirror matchup finally, I can’t wait to see how diverse this game will be.” The game will be equally boring whether it’s a faction mirror or non-mirror depending on the player matchup. Having pre-picked factions and a faction veto will just make things random and unpredictable. Example: map is cobalt valley - player 1 vetoes cyb and picks cyb + aeon. Player 2 vetoes cyb and picks cyb + phim. Now there’s an aeon vs phim matchup. Player 2 is now unhappy because this matchup sucks for him. If he had uef or cyb, he would be fine to play vs aeon here (phim doesn’t have a good answer to aurora on this map imo).

I don’t particularly care what happens, but I just don’t see how not picking the dominant faction on a map will make the game quality / watchability better. I guess I’ve just played for so long that I don’t care how “diverse” things are, I just pick whatever is the strongest. I like to see players perform their best with their preferred faction.

This concludes my bi-yearly forum post.

[ThomasHiatt]

The Mirror Problem is fake news, I didn't see too many faction mirrors in the last two tournaments I watched. Since last balance patch factions are actually somewhat balanced.

[Blackheart]

Id definitely enjoy the cybran only wheelchair ridden pros having to play something else once in a while

[MrTBSC]

If you’re incapable of microing aurora and/or incapable of realizing a map has a bias for one faction that you can then veto, you aren’t the good player I’m looking for.

me being capable of microing auroras will matter jack the moment my opponent veto´s the faction .. but that´s exactly the thing: in your mind you may take away what favors a faction to be played .. way i see it you potentionaly take away a faction that requires the skill for these units to perform like that in the first place ..

like f*** it, I AM NOT a good player ... that doesn´t however matter ... why is it ok to punish players who are legit good with a faction they spend their longest time playing with? why is it needed for them to be basicaly forced to play other factions when the primary reason a advanced player plays these factions rather to have a good understanding to counter them with his primary faction? ... like you drasticaly increase the learningcurve even further then should be neccesary ...

if a map with a pond in the middle favors a faction with hovercraft or cheap navy then the opponent with a different faction needs to adapt to that and/or the faction needs to have a way to either deal or circumvent that issue ..

the way you basicaly build up such a tournament is with jack of all trade players than specialists ..
sure some players may not care .. others however may simply be not intrested in such a setup and simply not show up ...

i mean do we as the audience realy want a player to win by simply voting out both the faction and maps his opponent might be a chalenge to him rather than both players showing peak skill with their primary factions?

Id definitely enjoy the cybran only wheelchair ridden pros having to play something else once in a while

then might as well make a "random pick" only tournament ... at least a player may have the "chance" to play his faction ...

we discussed why cybran is so favored to be played many times over the friggin decade compared to the other factions ..
why barely anyone plays phim and what they lack ... if players AND the audience want more variet matchups over a number of maps favoring specific factions then the lacking factions NEED to be tweaked/balanced torwards what they are lacking be that directly or indirectly ..
you sure as hell do not ballance a game by making strong (not broken) content weak or straight up banning it, you go and make the weak content strong ...

[Farmsletje]

Just so you know sera is the 2nd most played faction in tourneys

[FtXCommando]

who are these dudes that lose 800 rating because they cant figure out zthuee float or smth lol

please name 5 "faction specialists" that play high level FAF tournaments

[keyser]

just an example, also they seems to favour playing those factions when the maps is suitable enough for the faction.

[FtXCommando]

just an example, also they seems to favour playing those factions when the maps is suitable enough for the faction.

The entire purpose of Thomas existence is to be contrarian. He doesn't pick Aeon anywhere near that level in tournaments.

I'll give you pepsi.

Swkoll hard to say, hasn't had a chance to play in the larger tournaments so I can't tell if he would actually stick with UEF.

Paralon plays phim and cyb like 50/50. So basically the same faction pick rate as half the people that play in tournies 4head