Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

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Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby TCJulian » 25 Apr 2015, 02:01

***FOR YOU TL;DRers***: If you don't want to read the process and you trust me and my math, this is for you:

Findings:
    -The pre-established T1, T2, and T3 Mass Extractor adjacency bonuses (7.5%, 10%, and 12.5% respectively) are very accurate at T2 and T3. T1 may have larger variation, but it is most likely due to rounding error.
    -Reclaim on a unit is the same no matter the adjacency bonus. So regardless of whether the unit was cheaper or more expensive when it was made, you still get same amount on reclaim.
    -Reclaim of a standard unit with net back approximately 81% of the units value. The more discounted the unit, the higher that number is (because the unit costs less at higher tech Mass Extractor adjacency).
    -Adjacency bonuses are given regardless if the Mass Extractor is active or not.
Data (Google Docs): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing


***FOR THOSE WHO WANT THE METHODOLOGY, PLEASE READ THE REST***

OVERVIEW
Recently, I have been doing some analysis on the adjacency bonuses in FA, mainly because I wanted see why different players do different strategies regarding build placement with/without adjacency. I looked at the wiki for my initial guidance on the subject. While it was helpful and laid the initial foundation of my analysis, I wasn't satisfied with what was presented, mainly because I didn't have access to some hard numbers. I performed an experiment to visual those hard numbers, and in doing so, found some interesting results (although some of this is already common and circulated knowledge). Regardless, I thought it would be worthwhile to share my results with the community. Please bear with me, as this post may be long.


SETUP
Here are some preliminary action I did in the lobby. I wanted to include this section for replicability purposes and to cover any variables in the setting that might change the result:
    -Game mode set to Sandbox
    -Map: 4v4 Confrontation (I just picked one with open space).
    -Infinite Timeouts
    -Adjustable game speed
    -No mods (besides GAZ UI) were active.

Upon entering the map, there were some other procedures I did that are important:
    -CTRL KO'd commander, mainly to stop his power and mass production (see Methodolgy).
    -Used Cheat menu to build mass extractors, engineers, ect.
    -Used Resource Cheat [CTRL+ALT+B] to raise Mass and Energy storage.

METHODOLOGY
The idea was to create each land unit from a faction (in this case UEF) under different build capacities and adjacencies to see if there were any patterns. The build capacity for this analysis were factories at different tech levels (no engineers assisting). The adjacency bonus to be tested was Mass Extractors at T1, T2, and T3. The control group was with no adjacency bonus.

So, if you want to visualize it, I developed four different groups:
    1. Land Factory with No adjacency bonus (Control)
    2. T1 Factory with T1 MEX adjacency
    3. T1 Factory with T2 MEX adjacency
    4. T1 Factory with T3 MEX adjacency

I also set some variables constant so I could measure any variations in resource cost of each group. For example:
    -Mass storage is kept at 10,500. This number is reset after every unit is built. I used the Production button on the Mass Extractors to stop and start Mass production to fill storage for next trial (e.i. next unit to be built).
    -Energy storage is at 10,000. This number is reset after every unit built. I built 1 T1 Pgen to fill storage after every trial. Once it was full, Pgen was CTRL K'd.

After setting everything up, I went through each unit, recording how much mass was spent from each factory. After each unit was completed and the information collected, I reclaimed the unit and reset Mass and Energy to their starting levels. I proceeded to do this for every UEF land unit, all the way up to T3.

EXAMPLE

In order to help alleviate any confusion, I made this section to provide and example of a trial, complete with pictures. For this trial, we will use the UEF T1 Tank, AKA the Striker. Lets get started!

1. Reset all variables
At the beginning of every trial, Mass and Energy is reset back to their maximum storage potential which in this case, is Mass 10,500; Energy 10,000. Once storage is filled, all production facilities are either stalled (Production button on Mass Extractors), or CTRL K'd (Pgens). Mass and Energy production should be +0.
Image

2. Create unit
Create the unit. Only produce at one factory. Remember, the point is to record how much that 1 unit costs.
Image

3. Measure change in Mass/Energy
See the number up top in storage? The difference between the starting value and the current value is how much the unit cost overall in mass. In a math equation:

(Starting Mass)-(Current Mass)=Cost of unit in Mass

So, in this instance, we are trying to figure out the cost of this T1 tank. The Starting Mass was 10,500. The Current Mass is 10,449. Plug it into the formula:

10,500 - 10,444= 56 Mass

This can be done for energy as well. Do the math and catalog the end value.
Image

4. Reclaim unit and reset Mass/Energy Storage
I chose to reclaim the units as I also wanted to collect data on reclaim values. You can determine the reclaim amount by reclaiming the unit, and subtracting the current mass storage compared to the starting amount. You then take that variable and subtract it from the unit cost.

(Cost of unit in Mass) - (Starting Mass-Reclaim Mass)=Reclaim Value of Unit
Image

5. Begin another trial with a different Factory group.
From there, you start the whole process over, but this time with a different factory group. In this case, the T1 factory with T1 Mass Extractor adjacency.
Image


RESULTS
Here is the basis of my findings:
    -The pre-established T1, T2, and T3 Mass Extractor adjacency bonuses (7.5%, 10%, and 12.5% respectively) are very accurate at T2 and T3. T1 may have larger variation, but it is most likely due to rounding error.
    -Reclaim on a unit is the same no matter the adjacency bonus. So regardless of whether the unit was cheaper or more expensive when it was made, you still get same amount on reclaim.
    -Reclaim of a standard unit with net back approximately 80% of the units value. The more discounted the unit, the higher that number is (because the unit costs less at higher tech Mass Extractor adjacency).
    -Adjacency bonuses are given regardless if the Mass Extractor is active or not.

Here is the link to a Google Docs that has all of the raw data: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing

FUTURE RESEARCH

I am hoping to do similar projects on adjacency, using this same method for the other faction's land factories, air factory adjacency, Mass Fabricator Adjacency effects, the best Adjacency setups in terms of discount yield, and a look at unit production with adjacency and engineers together. Any future research ideas, criticisms, suggestions, and comments would be appreciated!

EDIT: 81% reclaim. Not sure why I put 80%, as my own data supports 81% :P
Last edited by TCJulian on 25 Apr 2015, 14:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby da_monstr » 25 Apr 2015, 02:37

While the work you put into this is admirable, I still have to wonder why was it necessary?
the figures of discount for adjacency are well known and documented.
All players that know about this use it in their build orders, as it gives a great advantage. (placing 4 factories around a T1 mex gives the bonus near equivalent to upgrading the mex to T2)
You should also consider doing a pgen adjacency, that is where the real bonuses lie. (makes early air much easier to pull off well)
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Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby zeroAPM » 25 Apr 2015, 11:47

It'd be fun to discover that by building expensive units with lot of adjacency they end up costing less than their reclaim value.

Ofc, no numbers on my parts but it would be fun to see the community reaction
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Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby Exotic_Retard » 25 Apr 2015, 13:12

http://wiki.faforever.com/index.php?tit ... ency_Bonus

a lot of this info could be found here.

nice research layout though :P

edit: also - 81% of a units base cost is given when reclaimed. for navy its 45.5% afaik.
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Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby keyser » 25 Apr 2015, 13:29

what's the point of the thread ?
afaik your result were already known..

something that i don't know (and isn't said in the wiki) is : when you get multiple mexx or pgen adjency how does it work ? i guess for 2 mexx, it isn't cumulate (like 2 mexx T1 adjency isn't = 15% reduction) But more like 7.5% discount, and then 7.5% discount of 92.5%.


actually i made some test about reclaim with hives. In high number the reclaim is completelly f*** up, you can get 120% of a unit or only 35%... But it require like 100 hives, so i didn't bother to post those result, since they don't really impact the game.
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Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby nine2 » 25 Apr 2015, 13:39

da_monstr wrote:placing 4 factories around a T1 mex gives the bonus near equivalent to upgrading the mex to T2


umm really that sounds really good but how does that work?

by my math you need something like
13 t1 factories OR
6 t2 factories OR
3 t3 factories
with adjacency to t1 mexes before you save 4 mass per second (which is what a t2 mex gives you extra)

another way of thinking about it is you need 13 t1 factories up and running before you save enough mass to support the 14th factory for free. which in my mind isn't worth thinking about.

or maybe this is it...
4x t2 Facs next to a t2 mex saves 3.6m/s. that is better but still not wonderful because I'd want to assist

am i on crack?
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Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby keyser » 25 Apr 2015, 13:53

well it depend what you are building.... you get 7.5% of the unit reduction. The more the unit cost the more mass you save.
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Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby TCJulian » 25 Apr 2015, 14:45

da_monstr wrote:While the work you put into this is admirable, I still have to wonder why was it necessary?
the figures of discount for adjacency are well known and documented.

keyser wrote:what's the point of the thread ?
afaik your result were already known..

SAKO_X wrote:a lot of this info could be found here.

nice research layout though :P


I thought this question might come up :). There was two reasons why I did this project:
    1. Sometimes research is done to verify if an existing theory is true. In this case, it was. Going into this project, I figured that the values would line up with what was in the wiki (which I did view before doing any of this :P). I mean if I REALLY just wanted the numbers, I am sure they are hardcoded somewhere in deep in the bowels of the FAF files. I wanted to run the test in-engine myself and see the numbers first hand. Haha, if anything, now we have more documentation! But, more over, I did a widely known adjacency mechanic because...

    2. This project let me experiment with the methodology to ensure it was reliable and valid. Which it did so quite well. If fact, there were a couple of things I had to tweak early on to ensure that I got accurate number time and time again. Now, I have a good platform to do other, perhaps more revealing, experiments in the future, such as the ones you all have mentioned.
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Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby Exotic_Retard » 25 Apr 2015, 17:52

the wiki article is backed by actual game code - confirmed by in game testing as well :P (we just didnt release the findings)

something that i don't know (and isn't said in the wiki) is : when you get multiple mex or pgen adjacency how does it work ? i guess for 2 mex, it isn't cumulative (like 2 mex T1 adjacency isn't = 15% reduction) But more like 7.5% discount, and then 7.5% discount of 92.5%.


as mentioned on the wiki (not explicitly though) - the amount of discount a consuming structure receives is proportional to the fraction of its perimeter which is taken up by adjacent structures of one type.

a bit of a mouthful but this is the only way i could put it in one sentence while being right :P

so to clear up any confusion - two mexes adjacent (to a fac) give twice the discount as 1.
this means that 8 adjacent (to fac) t3 mexes give a 100% discount - you build your units for free

interestingly - a t2 mex upgrading next to a t3 mex receives a 25% discount because it is smaller.

if you think this is unclear in the article then - please by all means suggest/make it better! (im not 100% happy with it tbh but i dont know what else to do)


also - your research is useful. just looking at this made me revisit the adjacency page and i have found some possible errors in it :/ (regarding clarity of mex % discount vs building size and maybe numbers also) if you find something wrong dont be afraid to change it in there - as long as you have evidence for it :P
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Re: Adjacency Hard Facts: Mass Extractors and Land Factories

Postby keyser » 25 Apr 2015, 18:48

two mexes adjacent (to a fac) give twice the discount as 1.


so 2 T1 mexx near a facto = 15% discount ?
i thought it was less than that.....
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