Cybran split missile

[da_monstr]

Hello everyone!

After a few tests of trying I was astonished to find out it was close to impossible to defend against 10 Viper lanchers. It took over 40 Cybran/UEF TMD to kill those missiles. The fact that the daugther missiles actually speed up after being hit, combined with huge overkill of the TMD (which is another issue to be resolved-several TMD targeting the same missile is just not cool) makes it near impossible to do anything about them. While the damage those missiles do is negligible, it can still eventually kill TMD units and prevent shields from recharging.

On another note, the Cybran TML is also very hard to defend against for all the same reasons. More infuriatingly, the split missiles do 1600 dmg each, making them extremely powerful. (all 3 missiles put together do 4800 dmg, compared to 6000 dmg of the intact missile) I think these could be slightly nerfed, or the cybran TML made more expensive.

If there any reasons for the situation to remain unchanged, please elaborate. It could be that I am just oblivious to the real reason for this. If that is so, fire away.

[Vee]

Increasing the cost of cybran tml is a good idea. That way faction diversity is retained. I'm not sure if vipers are really problematic though. In general I think mmls are not that great, and vipers are just the least bad. Usually in a pd war you need t3 arty anyway.

[VoiceofReason]

Well, I really think the fact that people have issues against Cybran MMLs and TMLs is perfect; Cybran can not keep up in the PD war, so it seems perfectly natural to give them the best working counter.
...Just my take on it all.
(also, afaik - Changes have already been make to split missiles due to peoples complaints; could be wrong :s)

[keyser]

i already think going for tml does cost a lot. (850 + 200 each missile)
Each time i go for tml, and succeed to kill some T2 mexx, i've put my eco way behind than other player that didn't go for it.
Yes i will put some of my direct opponent a little bit behind in eco.
But if i want to be able able to spam missile, i need to stop eco.
If you are scouted people can react fast by sending bombers to it, or build tmd in emergency (if they don't have some already).
And you need to build tmd to defend your tml and T2 mexx.
increasing the cost of tml isn't a good idea at all imo.

for mml, i think you would do way better by getting a shield after 10 tmd) than spaming 40 tmd.

[Frozen_byte]

I think VoiceofReason is right.
Cybran has the worst PD-War but best counter. This is fair and does not need any balance.

[codepants]

Well, I really think the fact that people have issues against Cybran MMLs and TMLs is perfect; Cybran can not keep up in the PD war, so it seems perfectly natural to give them the best working counter.
...Just my take on it all.
(also, afaik - Changes have already been make to split missiles due to peoples complaints; could be wrong :s)

+1

Cybran have awesome tml/mml because if they didn't, they would lose horribly against the pd creep of any other faction. They are an early game faction and if they couldn't break turtles that would make the basically useless past the t1 stage.

Each faction has its strengths. One of Cybran's is tml/mml. I think that's fine.

What do you do about it? Don't turtle. If you must turtle, make shields. Press mmls with your ground forces.

Or hope your opponent doesn't make them. IMO they are incredibly underused.

[IceDreamer]

I agree they should have the best TML, but I think it's a bit too good and suggest one tiny change: A little bit of spread on the split missiles. As in, once split, they don't all gravitate to the exact same spot, but have a tiny bit of spread to them. Overall effect on PD war - not much. Ability for a couple of MML to kill a pair of TMD - greatly diminished.

[da_monstr]

I guess what really bothers me is the fact that the splits speed up so much and the inability of TMD to not overkill missiles. The problem is just the most apparent with cybran MML.

And yes, I am completely aware of the "don't turtle against cybran", "build shields to defend against the mml" and all those obvious mantras most of you stated. However.
Isn't it ridiculous that even investing 5x of the threats' mass into its supposed counter achieves nothing?

[Frozen_byte]

Well this is why you "don't turtle vs cybran" because it is too TMD intensive.

[Flamingo]

Long range threat projection is an odd game, really. It winds up being a matter of escalation. They build artillery, you build a shield. They build TML, you build TMD. If you and your opponent are locked in this kind of tit-for-tat where you eventually lose because your opponent built forty vipers and lined them up along the border of your base, then the both of you were likely playing an extremely reactive game where the Cybran eventually won because the split missile thing could make that much difference.

The overkill thing with TMDs is a problem, but it's one you can over come by putting TMDs at different spots around your base. The TMDs fire at targets within their range, so if they don't all detect the missiles simultaneously they should fire on the missiles at different intervals.

Aside from that, be more proactive. That can be a tough recommendation in team games where sometimes one player dedicates himself to doing one obnoxious job, but the thing with static emplacements is that they can't go anywhere. Even mobile missile launchers are fragile and fairly slow, and they're kind of useless against moving targets. If you can't move out of your base and attack the enemy units at your borders, then either they've got a larger army and you've basically lost, or you don't have an army at all because you're playing PD creep, and getting slaughtered like that is the price you pay for the risk of having a tactically inflexible strategy.

TMLs are expensive and can crash an economy to build in much number. Mobile missile launchers are easy cleaned out by a responsive army. Aside from all that, as people say, it's not like the Cybrans don't have worse PDs and worse shields, so if they're pressuring you, pressure them back!