"Updating" the game

[Coffee nut]

Hi,

I was just wondering if the modders and the individuals who are changing the nature of the game/proposed changes to the game can at least post in the forum, either in an annoucement section or in the news section of the faf website? I get that as it is open source that 'anyone can look it up', but quite frankly, there are non technical players (like me) who want any changes made to be listed somewhere obvious, prefereably so that people can see what's going on with the game and talk about it. I know there are individuals in the forum who dislike thinking/talking and prefer to push it through and then think later, but at least give an opportunity for those who want to know what's going on to have a chance to find out.

In aeolus there's talk of major changes happening and that changes can be reversed if people don't like it, and there seems to be cliques here and there that know about what's happening and those that don't. For everything about making it a community project I would like players to at least be kept in the light on what to expect. For example, what is the next change for engy reclaim?. what's going on with the novax? What mods rank games and what don't?

What do these changes even mean?

" Shield and Hitbox fixes above will have balance implications of varying size" ...?
"Tempest can now build hovering Aeon Land units", was this something that was requested? and isn't this quite a major balance change?
"Satellite base now builds the satellite, when satellite dies, base can rebuild", I thought this was really difficult or something? what happens when a nuke hits it?
Implement proper Stealth-->?


Any one care to explain? Yay for communication.

[rootbeer23]

Here is the list of what is implemented at the moment:
https://github.com/FAForever/fa/blob/develop/readme.md

what of this will become standard is a different issue.
Whether there will be a vote, a beta release for testing changes or a dictatorial decision on balance
is not yet decided.
When it is in the list above, somebody has made a subjective judgement that there is something wrong
and started fixing it, without assuming that it will be forced upon all as-is.

[Coffee nut]

Okay thanks, I didn't really understand what that list was, and just assumed that anything on there is going into the game for certain. From your explanation, that doesn't seem like it's the case, though I'm not sure? You start off saying that those things will be implemented, but go on to say that there isn't the assumption that it wil be forced upon as is? So are those changes being implemented or not? Or does the second part of your statement only apply to changes after 3636?

Can someone post what is definitively going to be implemented then into the game next patch, or what has already been implemented or any changes since the installation of the last update?

[rootbeer23]

its being implemented -> someone is writing code for it.
whether that code will be used is open to deliberation.
you can try and make a case against any of the changes.
so i would say implementation is a bit stronger than just writing code.
assume that a change will be made standard unless a case is made against it.
in a sense a case has been made already for the change in the form of the implementation.

[Sheeo]

Hi,

I was just wondering if the modders and the individuals who are changing the nature of the game/proposed changes to the game can at least post in the forum, either in an annoucement section or in the news section of the faf website? I get that as it is open source that 'anyone can look it up', but quite frankly, there are non technical players (like me) who want any changes made to be listed somewhere obvious, prefereably so that people can see what's going on with the game and talk about it. I know there are individuals in the forum who dislike thinking/talking and prefer to push it through and then think later, but at least give an opportunity for those who want to know what's going on to have a chance to find out.

In aeolus there's talk of major changes happening and that changes can be reversed if people don't like it, and there seems to be cliques here and there that know about what's happening and those that don't. For everything about making it a community project I would like players to at least be kept in the light on what to expect. For example, what is the next change for engy reclaim?. what's going on with the novax? What mods rank games and what don't?

What do these changes even mean?

" Shield and Hitbox fixes above will have balance implications of varying size" ...?
"Tempest can now build hovering Aeon Land units", was this something that was requested? and isn't this quite a major balance change?
"Satellite base now builds the satellite, when satellite dies, base can rebuild", I thought this was really difficult or something? what happens when a nuke hits it?
Implement proper Stealth-->?


Any one care to explain? Yay for communication.

I've updated the readme for the repository, it's the same link that rooot posted: https://github.com/FAForever/fa/blob/develop/readme.md.

Clarified that these changes are tentative, and up for discussion. We work by consensus, and the changes so far have been mostly agreed upon by those that have talked about it, with one exception: reclaim ground.

Patch 3636 is not scheduled for release until after the next version of the lobby, which will make it easier for us to push patches, so there's still time to let your voice be heard about these things


Also, I'll add our aim for this patch: Bugfixes and gameplay improvements. This is not meant to be a balance patch, in the sense that we're not making any direct changes to balance (Except for the tiny mongoose buff).

The tempest being able to build hover units was discussed and deemed to not really affect balance.

Regarding the satelite rebuild, it's not been implemented yet.

[IceDreamer]

Also, I'll add our aim for this patch: Bugfixes and gameplay improvements. This is not meant to be a balance patch, in the sense that we're not making any direct changes to balance (Except for the tiny mongoose buff).

I'll add here that the reason we are focused on bugfixes while avoiding deliberate balance changes is because regardless of intention, each one of these bugfixes will change game balance. It's not a good idea to put balance changes on top of that, far better to fix the bugs we can, get that working, and then take a look at what that does to the game over the subsequent weeks. Then intelligent balance decisions can begin to be made, without bugs getting in the way.

For example, Shields were bugged. Some fixes happened last patch, but more are happening this one, mostly to the way personal shields work. Personal shields will now be a fair amount stronger. If that increase in strength proves too much, it can be reduced again later with legitimate changes, changes we can control, like HP, Energy cost, and recharge time, rather than everything being based on the unpredictable behaviour of buggy code

[Gorton]

I would like to add that what some people consider bugfixes are not absolutely required to be *fixed*.

Speaking personally, I would appreciate seeing some full changelogs before the patch (and also, a balance mod like previous).

And of course, a balance team. Even if it's mostly bugfixes, that can still change the way the game is played. I think a balance team is still required here, or at least consultation.

And on that last note, since we would have actual balancing after this anyway, making a balance team now just saves time later.

[IceDreamer]

I fully support a sort of beta period, and thankfully the new patcher system should make running such a thing far easier. I think I may suggest something like FAF going into 'BETA Mode', and notifying players of this. In such a time, the default host games would run the new patch, and be frequently updated with whichever fixes/changes are necessary. A new button in the Featured Mods area could appear saying 'Play V36xx', which is whatever the current version is. Ladder could go on playing the current version (Or a specially refined version of the patch, including only essential exploit and major bug fixes, if necessary). Once the patch is finalised, we turn off 'BETA Mode', which updates the Ladder and removes the old version button.

In contrast to that, I should add that there is a certain amount of support among developers that EVERY patch version of FAF be playable at the click of a button, and the new patcher is being built to enable that. If that's the case, I just mean that the most recent stable patch should be given greater visual impact.

[rootbeer23]

How about instead of old and busted balance teams, we try new and shiny balance arguments.
make your case like a lawyer would in a courtroom, when it is obvious that it is controversial, we vote.
lawyers make structured arguments and dont flame each other, so that might be a bit difficult
to achieve here.

[rootbeer23]

In contrast to that, I should add that there is a certain amount of support among developers that EVERY patch version of FAF be playable at the click of a button

seems like dstojkov may finally get his wish granted.