Ythotha VS Colossus

[IceDreamer]

So some people were debating this in Aeolus, arguing about whether this is a bug or glitch or just smart play. Basically, if you get a Colossus close enough, the Ythotha cannot fire back, thanks to minimum range and muzzle aim restraints on the arm weapons. The current situation is, and I must emphasise this, clever play, not a bug or glitch abuse. However, that doesn't mean the situation is good for gameplay, and that's what this thread is for.

The Facts:
- The two units are the same speed
- As of the next patch (3636) the Colossus beam will no longer miss the Ythotha.
- Centre 'Ball Of Death' weapon has a minimum range of 4. It will deal self damage (Got that wrong before, oops)
- Left and Right hand weapons cannot aim inward enough to shoot the Colossus once it is close enough. This effect will be reduced somewhat in 3636, as the larger collision hull on both units (Essential to fixing beam collisions) means that they can no longer clip into one another. I have checked, however, and the Colossus can still get into a zone where the Ythotha cannot fire back. The zone is just smaller than it was.

The Options:
- Keep the status quo, and keep this labelled as clever gameplay.
- Remove the minimum range from the 'Ball Of Death'. The Ythotha will be able to fight back a little.
- Increase the amount the arms can articulate in. This will allow the Ythotha to fight back at full strength, but will cause visual clipping. I don't recommend it.

[RK4000]

Keep as is. I like that this is possible to do. The ball of death would hurt the chicken itself anyway (AoE FTW), so it's not a change at all pretty much even if you allow that to happen.

If anything, that shortens the time required to keep the colossus as close, making it easier to do this, which it should not be, since it is good as-is.

Definitely against option 3. Would look extremely goofy (possibly awkward if the chicken is aiming at... a specific section of the GC's torso)

[D4E_Omit]

Keep it labeled as smartplay, the chicken already has some advantages over the colossus, it costs less mass, it has an AoE cannon and it has AA.. Especially the AoE makes the chicken so deadly, it can get veterancy QUICK, whilst the GC can't. I think we should keep one of the only advantages the GC has over the chicken.

[IceDreamer]

The ball of death would hurt the chicken itself anyway (AoE FTW)

No friendly fire, no self damage.

[RK4000]

The ball of death would hurt the chicken itself anyway (AoE FTW)

No friendly fire, no self damage.

Who says it doesn't have friendly fire? It just doesn't collide with friendlies. It very much has friendly damage (which results in lots of lulz when a chicken obliterates friendly tanks after it misses the unit you're microing )

[IceDreamer]

The ball of death would hurt the chicken itself anyway (AoE FTW)

No friendly fire, no self damage.

Who says it doesn't have friendly fire? It just doesn't collide with friendlies. It very much has friendly damage (which results in lots of lulz when a chicken obliterates friendly tanks after it misses the unit you're microing )

It shouldn't. DamageFriendly is undefined and should default of false.

[RK4000]

It defaults to true. The only reason this is not apparent is because almost all normal shots have CollideFriendly set to false, and thus pass right through other units commanded by the same player, even though DamageFriendly is set to true, since it's undefined.

However, they do not pass through friendly units commanded by another player (another army) and thus they still collide (and do friendly damage to) them. This is apparent when, for example, an ACU is trying to cover you and ends up shooting your ACU when trying to shoot at the enemy ACUs. xD

[Exotic_Retard]

make chicken be able to fight back a little;

the battle is actually pretty closeimo
you can micro from option 2 by bumping chicken : )
however this stuff isnt intuitive and i dont like it.
this means "traditional dodging" will be used instead which is more intuitive and "better" imo. (because of lightning storm - you dont want to be near when it dies)
if you doge facebullets with gc while walking up to chicken gc wins but "only" with ~20-40% hp left

so really i think that testing will reveal next patch if its imba or not

at first glance it definitely seems like it is though


i have done testing and did not assume things just becasue thats what i felt at the time. *hint hint* : D

replay id: 2718745 (dont have link to new replay vault )

[Vee]

GC is already stronger than Ythotha without this bug.

There's another option to fix this: give the GC minimum distance too.

[Lu_Xun_17]

you fix a bug, you don't fix a feature.

+ when you go contact to an ythota, you know it will end badly for the GC too