Strategy for Waters of Isis against Seraphim

[TestPlay]

I am not sure when I say this, but it seems interestingly difficult to counter Seraphim T3 Subs if you encounter a Seraphim player who knows how to play and get to the T3 stage in Waters of Isis? (Total sea domination means that losing the sea is as good as losing the game on that map?)

Any land (hover tanks) and sea form of attack will be hard countered by Seraphim T2 Destroyers + T3 Subs or Yenzynes/PDs? Any attack from air will get knocked out by any Seraphim T1/T3 Interceptors, Cruisers/Aircraft Carriers and Static AA defences? The Seraphim player thus has the advantage to do what he likes (T2 hover tanks, T3 Battleship, Experimental or Nuke?) as long as there are the T3 subs for defence or to push an attack?

If you do not attack, you allow Seraphim to get to T3 and you lose. If you attack, you will give Seraphim reclaim and still lose? It seems like Seraphim has the advantage on this map?

Is there any decent strategy by which the other factions could use to counter this?

[JeeVeS]

You can groundfire them with any battleship. Aeon can push with destroyers and use tempest in the later game. Uef and cybran torp bombers are still effective on waters of isis. Uef can push with shield boats and coopers with an atlantis to fire at range and a couple neptunes if they use a lot of destroyers. Cybran can just mass salems in a tight clump with mermaids and a trident meat shield if you need it, or just catch him off guard with a bunch of barracudas as he won't be able to see how many you have without omni. Stealth torpedo com is also an option as is harms creep with com or scu.

[-_V_-]

LOL Water of Isis is probably the worst map to make t3 sera subs because the range hardly matters due to the configuration of the map (huge rocks in the middle).

[Mr-Smith]

ya as cybran you can easy spam harms in teh mid to pwn sera with some BS/ cruisers to provide tmds
than you get a SR / Scatis and pwn them.

or you just go for t2 subs
the topology of waters of isis makes it easy to win with t2 subs vs t3 subs

[Poch]

Yeah cybran is op on this map you can do tons of stuff :
- Best T1/T2 navy to rush & deny ANY naval early
- Torp com
- Stealth subs
- HARMS creep with SCUs (or early with ACU)
- Monkey/Mega rush into ennemy base
- Telemazer
- Scathis
- Soul Ripper
- Really annoying TMLs

And as stated above other faction have nice possibilities too.

Sera is nowhere near OP on water of isis, you probably need to learn navy balance better or just how to counter T3 subs in general.

If sera is low on T1-T2 to go fast T3 you should easily win before he gets a lot subs. If it is 3v3/4v4/ then teamwork matter more than the doing of a single person probably.

Spoiler: show

I am not sure when I say this, but it seems interestingly difficult to counter Cybran OP SHIT (T1/T2 rush / T3 harms spam / insert favortie tactic here) if you encounter a Cybran player who knows how to play and get to the T3 stage in Waters of Isis? (Total sea domination means that losing the sea is as good as losing the game on that map?)

Any land (hover tanks) and sea form of attack will be hard countered by T1 frigates + T2 Destroyers + SoulRipper/PDs? Any attack from air will get knocked out by any T1/T3 Interceptors, Cruisers/Aircraft Carriers and Static AA defences? The Cybran player thus has the advantage to do what he likes (T1 or T2 navy rush, wagners, T3 Battleship, Experimental walking base to base, scathis or Nuke?) as long as there are enough of the op HARMS heavily mixed with sams/tmds/sacus/navy for defence or to push an attack?

If you do not attack, you allow Cybran to get to HARMS spam and you lose. If you attack, you will give Cybran reclaim and still lose top op T1/T2 navy? It seems like Cybran has the advantage on this map from T1 to T3 ?

Is there any decent strategy by which the other factions could use to counter this?

You probably can do that for ANY faction. You don't provide any concrete material that would allow us to help you : saying "XXX unit is too strong" without providing replays or telling us what you tried.

[Vee]

Turtle to the max and make RAS sacus which sera doesn't have

[E8400-CV]

- HARMS creep with SCUs (or early with ACU)

Can just as well do it late with ACU as well. That map screws with torp bombers, making them fly into the hills.

Also: Sera subs got a lot weaker in the first of februari patch; reduced range, reduced hp, reduced aa dps, increased hitbox (when surfaced).

[Herbert]

I am not sure when I say this, but it seems interestingly difficult to counter Seraphim T3 Subs if you encounter a Seraphim player who knows how to play and get to the T3 stage in Waters of Isis? (Total sea domination means that losing the sea is as good as losing the game on that map?)

Any land (hover tanks) and sea form of attack will be hard countered by Seraphim T2 Destroyers + T3 Subs or Yenzynes/PDs? Any attack from air will get knocked out by any Seraphim T1/T3 Interceptors, Cruisers/Aircraft Carriers and Static AA defences? The Seraphim player thus has the advantage to do what he likes (T2 hover tanks, T3 Battleship, Experimental or Nuke?) as long as there are the T3 subs for defence or to push an attack?

If you do not attack, you allow Seraphim to get to T3 and you lose. If you attack, you will give Seraphim reclaim and still lose? It seems like Seraphim has the advantage on this map?

Is there any decent strategy by which the other factions could use to counter this?

If you play cybran then regardless of what faction your opponents are raid the engies assisting their navy facs with t2 fighter/bombers. This should be part of your naval dominance strategy as it slows down their ship production and upgrade rates. As soon as your navy is ahead of theirs then knock them out of the sea (dont wait and let them restablish). If they are good and you have to go defensive navy then t3 torps are effective especially with the occasional megalith. You might also want to try transport dropping bricks onto their t3 subhunters.

If uef then submersable carriers with shield boats are an effective strategy. God knows what you would do with Aeon lol

[Blackheart]

Brick - the new hardcounter to t3-subs.

[Gorton]

Herbert wrote..

I would use t1 bombers: T2 are expensive and don't kill many engies for the mass you spent, but t1 bombers splash will kill many engies and are quite cheap.
Use t2 subs. Without the ability to kite for t3 subs you should win mass for mass.
As UEF, make shield boats and cluster many torpedo boats together. The combined torp def makes it very hard for them to die and they will again destroy t3 subs mass for mass since t3 subs cannot kite here.