The enfeebled status of sera destroyers

[JeeVeS]

I think sera t2 naval has been weakened too much. Consider the following:

Destroyer beam damage (contrary to the database) has been reduced to 190dps, with 125dps coming from the front gun and 65dps from the rear. The previous numbers were 117.5dps front and 105dps rear, for 222.5dps total, a reduction of almost 15% overall, but 48% to the rear gun dps (most of the damage done while kiting). Compared to the main gun dps of the other factions (aeon: 212dps, cybran: 230dps, uef: 275dps) this is notably less. Although they benefit more from micro, they are also much less effective at damaging small targets and inland targets in general. Combined with 20 less range than aeon and cybran, lower hp than uef and aeon, and no other other t2 support ships besides cruiser, it's easy to see situations where they would be notably disadvantaged.

Regarding torpedo warfare, sera destroyers fare even worse. Contrary to the database, the actual torpedo dps is just below 107. This causes them to lose to equal mass in cybran t2 subs and even equal mass in uef t1 subs. They can edge out equal mass in aeon t2 subs when numbers are low but quickly lose this advantage as they grow. Submerged destroyers lose to cybran destroyers, get obliterated by aeon destroyers, and ofc lose to similar mass of coopers.

When you couple these weaknesses with the game's worst torpedo bombers and gunships, as well the worst t1 subs and arguably the worst frigates, you end up with what I would call an unacceptable vulnerability in some scenarios.

This post is intended for people that are experienced and thus qualified to review it and reply with their own fact-based opinions. Please consider this prior to responding.

[MrGray]

no other other t2 support ships

Zthuee, Yenzyne and Iashavoh are support units for sera t2 fleet, you cant look at single units (dead horse named UEF is not so dead if you look at coopers and shield boats for example). With addition of t3 mobile shields or subs it is pretty scary force. Also torpedo launcher must be used when you comparing DPS considering that sera destroyers not supposed to engage at maximum distance (60 range vs 80) and can close in to torpedo distance while been submerged.
P.S. if you want a buff than maximum what i can think of is speed boost to something like 6 may be? But i do not think it is necessary.

[Apofenas]

Wut? First, sera dests may be best overall. Only aeon is better on paper, but it's really hard to get that to full usage, or cybran, but that depends of situation.
Second uef dest is ONLY one that looses to t2 subs right now. Seraphim one is a little more cost efficient than subs, but also has it's main cannons, making it far better.
Third, frigates and cruisers are your supporting stuff, you don't need anything else, like cybrans, that have "advantage window" at t2 and have support units to use it, or uef that have to mix units and react to opponents, or aeon, that require t2 hover units in support.

Zthuue is good sometimes to get down shields or prevent uef or aeon destroyer to get in close range, but most of the time, the frigates is better investment.
Well, Yenzie is just best t2 raiding unit, being hover is just like bonus, it hasn't much usages in navy I think.

[Cheva]

I wish people would read what JeeVeS writes before answering he usually has sound points and then people respond with fluff. He at least includes facts and figures in his post.

Chevalier

[galacticfear]

In my opinion a slight increase in DPS or making each beam the same DPS (190/2) to make kiting better would be acceptable.

[Apofenas]

Spoiler: show

I wish people would read what JeeVeS writes before answering he usually has sound points and then people respond with fluff. He at least includes facts and figures in his post.

Chevalier

Didn't notice it reading first time. The problem lies in this:

Contrary to the database, the actual torpedo dps is just below 107.

if that is true, than sera dest might even have lowest dps total, but even in that case, I don't remember seraphim players being in disadvantage in naval fights. Get missing 53 dps back and problem get fixed.

[IceDreamer]

It was deliberately nerfed last patch because kiting and micro with it were proven to be OP, I think by Zock or BH or someone like that. ZLO? Anyway, the turret turnrate and weapon DPS were lowered. It looks worse on paper, but don't underestimate 100% accuracy. With the hitbox and targetbone fixes I've been making going live in the next beta (I hope) the Seraphim Destroyer is going to get a hefty power boost from it. The fact that it barely hits Torpedo Launchers and Hovertanks at present lowers its potential, and those days are at an end.

[BRNKoINSANITY]

^this. The aeon destroyer is brutally strong, but only if all the shots hit. The projectiles are slow and easy to predict, so dodging them is a cinch.

[Zock]

It's the only destroyer that you can't dodge against, while being able to micro yourself.
That doesn't only make it very strong vs all other destroyers, but also vs hovertanks.

All other destroyers get hard countered by frigates, while sera with the diving ability is not only immune to them but also counters them itself. Being able to counter the biggest counter to destroyers is not a small thing. The same is not as impactfull, but still very useful in some situations vs battleships. Need to take this into account when judging sera, and not forget fobos too, and not only look at weaknesses.

Patchnotes about the dmg changes say: Front Gun DPS = 125 (From 105). Rear Gun DPS = 65 (From 95)

Your values are different, i don't know which are correct. The patch also included the changes/buffs to all beam weapons (like sera destroyer).


But last time i played, if you give me a faction to play on t2 navy stage, i'd choose sera, and 90% because of strength of the destroyer..


And it doesn't make much sense that cyb t2 subs did slightly better than aeon t2 subs in your tests.

[Vee]

In my tests some time ago, the cybran t2 sub beats the sera destro, even more so in high numbers. In fact, in high numbers the cybran t2 sub can even beat cybran destros if the cybran destro isn't microed very well. And yes, the cybran sub seems to be better than the aeon one, perhaps due to torp def stacking better with multiple subs? The cybran T2 sub is a very underrated unit. While it may not be a good option in practice, since it cannot shoot mexes (like the sera destro on most maps), it certainly isn't as bad as many players believe.

IMO the beam weapon of the sera destro is excellent, and doesn't need a buff.