Ground Fire vs Submerged units

[Typo91]

Am i the only person that feels like this is kind of an exploit?

I know there is a lot of people that feel like this is a "Skill" type play, but honestly i feel dirty if i do it.

And against things like Altantis, or other large experimentals that submerge its really nasty, since they can barley move.

Also against subs.

Why would someone build a sub, and then only go 10 feet underwater with it? really look at the scale, I measured, its about 10 to 20 feet mostly.

Even ground targeting a commander with something to hit him with AOE under water feels like a dirty thing.


I could live with it since the commander needs to go deep to be safe... sure, but no depth protects from giant metal donuts falling out of the sky... sure whatever.

But can any one else agree, that a Submarrine from the 36th century that was designed to go underwater, might go deeper then 10 feet to avoid the surface carnage? I mean that is the point of submerging right?

Would it be possible to tweak all the subs somehow to act like underwater walking units, and hug the ocean floor instead?

Or am I crazy?

[Sir Prize]

I wouldn't call it an exploit, there's some skill to it, particularly regarding subs. The lore doesn't check out for 20th century subs let alone the 39th (I think) century, you're right, but neither does battleships being viable or a bunch of other stuff. I'd be more concerned about balance if naval ground fire was nerfed, and I just don't know enough about that to comment. Ground fire of HARMS already has a thread I think.

[rootbeer23]

Or am I crazy?

you are late. every single point you make was discussed at infinitum a few weeks ago.
(the HARMS groundfire thread).
there was no resolution back then, there won't be one now.

[rockoe10]

My suggestion is to make a mod that has those changes and see how it feels. Let others give it a try and if all goes over well then you have something more concrete to bring to the table. Otherwise it's just back and forth banter

[Apofenas]

It won't happen, unless you personally do that, or find a codder, who will agree to make it for you. Otherwise this topic will get forgotten or even closed and couple months after somebody will post similar thread.

I posted a couple ideas about nerfing ground fire in general and about making harms standing a chance against ground fire in thread about harms.

I guess this is main problem of faf: problems aren't getting solved until it's main balance period task.

[Krapougnak]

My suggestion is to make a mod that has those changes and see how it feels. Let others give it a try and if all goes over well then you have something more concrete to bring to the table. Otherwise it's just back and forth banter

If memory serves Diamond Mod makes all the subs dive deeper to avoid ground fire. It's a pretty simple change in the unit bp (Physics => Elevation).

[Resin_Smoker]

My suggestion is to make a mod that has those changes and see how it feels. Let others give it a try and if all goes over well then you have something more concrete to bring to the table. Otherwise it's just back and forth banter

If memory serves Diamond Mod makes all the subs dive deeper to avoid ground fire. It's a pretty simple change in the unit bp (Physics => Elevation).

Keep in mind that deeper subs cant get as close to the shoreline.

[Apofenas]

My suggestion is to make a mod that has those changes and see how it feels. Let others give it a try and if all goes over well then you have something more concrete to bring to the table. Otherwise it's just back and forth banter

If memory serves Diamond Mod makes all the subs dive deeper to avoid ground fire. It's a pretty simple change in the unit bp (Physics => Elevation).

It should not be completely removed. I remember somebody was saying it's intended feature. My suggestion was:

Spoiler: show

My opinion about ground firing is to make 1 projectile to do multiple damadges with different AoE.

For example tempest's main cannon. Now it does 8000 damadge with 5 AoE. After reworking it would do 2000 damadge with 5 AoE+ 2000 damadge with 3 AoE+ 2000 damadge with 1AoE + 2000 damadge with no AoE. Total 8000 in the centre of the shell, but only 2000 in outer ring.

If subs would get only 45% of full damage when underwater, the problem might almost disappear, cause of being ineffective.

Also about harms :

Spoiler: show

About HARMS. I think about making 2 shooting modes:
1)Current HARMS;
2)Deeper HARMS with stealth(and/or torp defence) and lowered range on it.

I guess next time I see same topic, I will just quote this post.

[IceDreamer]

Normal subs should be easy to adjust, but HARMS is a right pain. Easier would be to put a check in the OnDamage so that if you are in the Sub layer you take 50% damage from weapons which don't have Sub in their targeting parameters.

That is, if you think it needs to change at all. I don't.

[Col_Walter_Kurtz]

I think it's preposterous that ground firing submerged units is even remotely possible. Why have submerged units in the game at all then? It seems completely unintended, a bad oversight by the devs, and using it is therefore an exploit in my modest opinion.