Bigger, Better, Fresh!!

[necxelos]

Want something new in Supreme Commander? Want completely new meta to arise on the ruins of old ones? Why don't we:
- Take Nomads, BlackOps, Total Mayhem and...
- Create expansion out of it?

This could use some superficial balancing (just to delete units that are completely the same as others without any own purpose of existance, as well as scaling down some completely OP things) but the real balancing could be made via FAF patches in time (people play, people talk, people come closer and closer to a real balance with time). All we need is one big start and we can make something great, not to mention make this community 100 times bigger which is allways good - people tend to come when there's word "expansion" around.

What general ideas are great in the mentioned mods:
- TM have Tier 1-3 experimentals which work in very funny way. They are actually prototypes to units one tier higher. So for example T1 Experimental Gunship have actually similar stats (or slightly better/worse) to normal T2 Gunship from factory. This opens up a lot of new openings and alternatives to teching.
- Both TM and BO increase number of naval units available. Pure game is just really poor here - some factions even have 2 ships at some tiers which is like a big joke. More variety, more fun.
- Nomads of course adds new faction - nothing more to say here. NEW FACTION. It is nearly twice as many combinations (and I'm talking only about duels) to play with (for mathemathically handicapped - now with 4 factions we have 6 duel combinations, and with 5 factions it is 10).
- Experimentals number. Right now there is absolutely 0 variety in terms of experimentals. We see same experimentals every game. And we don't have any experimentals at all in some RACE/fightspace combinations. For example 0 Cybran Naval experimentals at all. Both TM and BO change that.
- Some fresh ideas like visual sensors or alternative to Carbon Deposite usage of course improves general variety.

So in the end: let's start the evolution!!!

A word of commentary from mod authors would be nice on this idea although judging by their presence on the forums (both BO and TM - Nomads are exception here) they are either dead or don't give a flying f***. Noone can blame them - RL happens. Which is exactly why FAF should take over and continue their awesome work or AT LEAST incorporate it to game for good and follow up balancing with future patches based on player feedback.

[Resin_Smoker]

Well let me start off by saying, this has been proposed before....

Let's detail why this is a total failure...

1) Changing or deleting units from a mod is not with the original spirit of the authors content. What was released is what was intended so please don't screw with it. Besides, you'd not be very happy if this was your mod and others got to nick pick only the elements they liked best.

2) Most the the PvP games I've seen on FAF are un-modded matches, thus the effort spend creating this merged content would most likely be played by a small number of people.

3) Balancing would be near impossible and a huge time sink to boot. Besides with the limited player base as noted in #2, the quality of player feedback would be poor.

4) Who do you expect to merge this content? Most of the modders have moved on or have serious time limitations from having a job, two kids and a wife. Unless you plan on learning and expect to do most of the work yourself, please don't toss out nonsensical ideas without first having a clue about what is required to pull it off.

5) Most of the authors would object to their good works being cut up and resubmitted as someone else's idea. Most of the mods you see on FAF took years and tens of thousands of man hours to produce. Hence your likely to be the target of some seriously negative feedback from all parties involved.

Resin

[errorblankfield]

Aaannnndddd shot down.

[necxelos]

1) Changing or deleting units from a mod is not with the original spirit of the authors content. What was released is what was intended so please don't screw with it. Besides, you'd not be very happy if this was your mod and others got to nick pick only the elements they liked best.

First of, I did create content for a few games (let's say Civ 4 or Dawn of War) and unlike You I know what "global effort to create something bigger then Your own ass" means. So no, I wouldn't mind, I would be happy that my work became a part official-like expansion.

2) Most the the PvP games I've seen on FAF are un-modded matches, thus the effort spend creating this merged content would most likely be played by a small number of people.

I use the word "expansion" here for a reason. Expansion is different from a mod in a way it is not an option. It's just a part of the game. For example nobody force You to play units introduced in Forged Alliance, You can use only vanilla Supreme Commander ones, but don't expect enemy to do the same. Your funeral, nobody cares.

3) Balancing would be near impossible and a huge time sink to boot. Besides with the limited player base as noted in #2, the quality of player feedback would be poor.

Yeah well as I already obliterated Your argument 2 (which seem to play a role in argument 3 as well) so it's only half the job here. Balancing is near childsplay when everybody plays the same content and post his feedback after geting his ass kicked (which would happen for first few months - that's what balancing is about, same happens for games released in beta - players help balance the game).

4) Who do you expect to merge this content? Most of the modders have moved on or have serious time limitations from having a job, two kids and a wife. Unless you plan on learning and expect to do most of the work yourself, please don't toss out nonsensical ideas without first having a clue about what is required to pull it off.

It took me only few hours to get what data about specific unit is stored in which files so I have some idea what kind of effort would it be. A WORTHWHILE ONE! As for merging itself it's just a matter of applying new units to next FAF patch. And later it's like (change HP of this unit from 5000 to 4000, because it's a little too tough - or something like that).

5) Most of the authors would object to their good works being cut up and resubmitted as someone else's idea. Most of the mods you see on FAF took years and tens of thousands of man hours to produce. Hence your likely to be the target of some seriously negative feedback from all parties involved.

Argument 1 copy pasted again? Seriously? Are You one of those people who have so much trouble seeing a little further then Your nose that they happen to trip on a banana? It's not like someone is making profit here, it's like making modder's work available to broader group of people and balancing it in the process. You want example? Caveman 2 Cosmos mod to Civilization 4, consisting of more than 100 mods (some of them consisting of many mods as well) and work was taken over 4 times already. Even mod name changed in the process few times but it was bigger and bigger over and over again and everyone was happy.

And if non-personal arguments don't get to You I'll make personal one: Would You like people to say "oh god, deflector shields, great addition, it's so fun to have it in game" or more like "oh god, another silly script, one of many, bugged like hell, why do I ever bother reading about it, it's not ganna be in game anyway".

So Yeah: don't jump to me with "mothers would disagree" because You seem to know nothing about what people desire and what makes them happy. For 99% modders of all games, having their content published officialy or at least "played by everyone" is like a Nobel Prize, Oscar or a Holy Grail.

ALL IN ALL: If something works with the producer of the brand (GPG for example) it surely will work when community took over the game after producer's bankrupcy (FAF in this case). All we need is more willingness and less lazyness/cowardness/looking_for_a_whole_in_place_without_any.

[necxelos]

Aaannnndddd shot down.

Not in this universe,
Not in this timeline,
Not me
and surely not by such subjective, fragile arguments.

[errorblankfield]

Have fun with that.

[Resin_Smoker]

Two thoughts on your latest rant....

1) I've been modding SC and FA while they were in beta. I'm what most would consider an authority or highly experienced in such matters. Check out the mod 4DC...

2) This post / idea is nothing new. Go look at GPG forums and look at what transpired there. (Most of it got ugly fast) Now after reading all that if your still willing to forge ahead, learn modding, forgo having a personal life, then no one will stop you.

Resin.

[SC-Account]

Well, this could be great. Of course one would have to ask the Authors of those mods if they agree with it.

Furthermore there would have to be official support from at least potentially after reviewing a beta as well as advertisement.

[Golol]

im pretty sure most people simply dont want this.
implementing nomads is okay and could be a good idea but implementing blackopa isnt imo. it is kinda fun for some ai or survival games but it totally destroys faction diversity, and WILL be incredibly hard to balance. such an expansion would make supcom a lot less competitive and more like supcom 2.

[SC-Account]

im pretty sure most people simply dont want this.
implementing nomads is okay and could be a good idea but implementing blackopa isnt imo. it is kinda fun for some ai or survival games but it totally destroys faction diversity, and WILL be incredibly hard to balance. such an expansion would make supcom a lot less competitive and more like supcom 2.

This was already stated by the thread opener, though. One would have to be selective and not just copy and paste it all into one pot.