How soon to build air lab.

[TEA_Downside]

Apologies if this should be in the newbie section I wasn't too sure, but I've chosen to post this here.

I played a couple of games on ladder yesterday against a cybran player where I' felt like i was ahead due to some early scouting and raiding. Only then to lose the advantage and eventually the game due to the opponents bombers and gunships, I went and made an air lab as soon as I saw his air units but I was continuously on the back foot from there on and couldn't get enough interceptors. On smaller maps should I be looking to go air 2nd to counter gunships or should I just make some t1 mobile aa from my land factories?

[PsychoBoB]

Hi,
it really depends on the map, on how your opponent plays and on your strategy. An early air fac can cost you the game because you have to less land units. On the other hand, if your are good enough and the map fits, you can win with nearly air only:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raSEkh0lp8w

To make it short, you have to try and find out (with replays of you AND of the pro players here).

[Gorton]

In the future, yes stuff like this should be in the help section.
It's a good idea to consider what your opponent can do against you if you don't have air. Cybrans have Jesters which, having high hp and good damage for a t1 unit are very tanky to t1 mobile aa, and they also fly out of range easily being much faster. If you're against a cybran, a good idea might be to go second air and build an air scout to see if he also went second air and you can counter with interceptors. If he didn't, abuse your own bombers (and gunships if you are also cybran*)
You can also discover whether he is going second air on small 5x5 maps by sending land scouts; trying to make them avoid any enemy groups by using a longer path and go to the enemy base and check what he's doing.
Scouting is very important in this game, and I should take my own advice and scout more as well.

(* Remember than all gunships can fire on each other with their air to ground weaponry)

Like the previous comment it's a good idea to watch replays of people better and see how they deal with this situations.

[ColonelSheppard]

Ignoring air completely is highly problematic is very problematic here are some guidelines:

- on small maps, you dont have to build air until your enemy does
- a T1 AA-Turret denies T1 air above your base nearly completely
- on bigger maps you should go second, or at least third air, unless you hve a very good plan on how to deal with incoming enemy air
- build T1 Mobile aa in a 1:3 ration into your army
- remember that you have more ground units and try to atack at many positions at the same time
- only atack enemy bombers and gunships and try to stay off the enemy fighter: If he then always send them with his atack units they will be decimated by your anti air
- try to fight above your own anti air, often people underestimate the damage that is done, already by a few AA units

[Blodir]

You don't really have to think about it too much. Always go air second in 10x10+ maps and no air (until enemy makes) in 5x5 unless it's a stalemate (which is very rare in 5x5).
Only build bombers and scouts until their airfac is up, of course. If they don't make air fast enough you'll be able to kill their power and thus prevent their spam. If they make mobile AA they won't be able to overrun you anyway.

[TEA_Downside]

I appreciate the advice guys. I will be sure to follow it!

Thanks

[BLITZ_Molloy]

On small maps when I'm building land I usually throw in an arty and an AA tank for every 5 normal tanks. That's usually enough to keep a handle on things until I can get an air factory up and commit more heavily. Air is expensive so I'm not fond of rushing it too quickly in a 1vs1.

On larger maps and team games I tend to focus on air very heavily. It makes you keep on top of your eco management so you can switch tactics later on pretty easily if things are going south.

[Hawkei]

I went and made an air lab as soon as I saw his air units...

This is where you went wrong. Air factory should never be a responsive structure. It should be pre-emptive. Depending on what you want to do. Air can go after the first, the second or even the third land factory - but no later than this. It can even go first if you intend doing a bomber rush. But a good all-round strategy is to build air after the first or second land factory.

[Aulex]

I went and made an air lab as soon as I saw his air units...

This is where you went wrong. Air factory should never be a responsive structure. It should be pre-emptive. Depending on what you want to do. Air can go after the first, the second or even the third land factory - but no later than this. It can even go first if you intend doing a bomber rush. But a good all-round strategy is to build air after the first or second land factory.

Depends on the map

[Gorton]

You can defend against bombers fairly effectively with t1 mobile aa, but you can't against jesters. You need air. Don't listen to firewall, air depends on the map, and you can never have a set plan for a game, you'll always have to adapt. Going air ASAP after seeing jesters is really required.